TCAPSLoop Podcast

EdTech Loop Ep. 100 - 10 Tips for Digital Parents

It’s Episode 100 of the EdTech Loop Podcast! Danelle and I are celebrating this shocking centenarian milestone with Stephie Luyt for a very special episode of the Loop; not just because it’s the 100th pod, but because it’s the most potentially useful pod we have recorded, 10 Tips for Digital Parents.
The Full Presentation: tinyurl.com/TCAPSdiglit2
 
Transcripts will be coming.

EdTech Loop Ep. 99 - Hour of Code

The EdTechLoop Pod is joined by a special guest this week as TCAPS STEM Coordinator, Heidi Skodack, shares her thoughts on the upcoming Hour of Code activities and STEM opportunities for students of all ages. Get involved in the "Hour of Code" December 9-15!
 
Show Transcripts
Larry Burden 0:04 Whatever you say is etched in stone.
Or at least when I was doing the little research that I did.
Heidi Skodack 0:13 Do you agree?
Danelle Brostrom 0:14 I do,
Larry Burden 0:15 We have to be able to hear you.
Heidi Skodack 0:16 Okay, this could go really bad.
Larry Burden 0:19 I am unconcerned.
It's Episode 99 of the EdTech Loop podcast, my name is Larry Burden and she still hasn't figured out how the zombies got into her Minecraft castle, it's Danelle Brostrom, and at long last, our quest is complete, as we joyously welcome TCAPS STEM Curriculum leader Heidi Skodak. I know you have many other titles, but we're just gonna stick with that one. Through a process of trial and error, I have crafted this week's moment of Zen.
Moment of Zen 0:51 I have been impressed with the urgency of doing. Knowing is not enough. We must apply. Being willing is not enough. We must do.
Larry Burden 1:01 A little Leonardo da Vinci for you there. We've eliminated all the unnecessary ingredients so we could truly appreciate the flavor of this week's meat of the show. Hour of Code. So every year, somehow when we do these podcasts, we make mention of the Hour of Code. We kind of, this is a really cool thing we should get involved in, after the podcast where we've mentioned it, we go, next year we need to have somebody on to discuss this before the Hour of Code so that we can get more people involved. So this year we have the person that knows it all.
Heidi Skodack 1:37 Definitely not the case, nobody can know it all.
Larry Burden 1:39 Definetly no the case, I was talking about Danelle.
Danelle Brostrom 1:43 No, no. We can dive right in though.
Larry Burden 1:45 Alright dive right in, I know you have a bunch of questions and I'm gonna throw a lot. I was mentioning to Danielle before the podcast that this is... I'm looking for some marketing materials here, because I have a daughter that's about ready to go off into college, who's a Maker but doesn't really realize that she's a Maker. And I've been trying for years to get her involved, a little bit more involved in, and we're discussing this earlier, Computer Sciences, computer programming, STEM, coding, whatever you want to call it. So I'm going to use all these materials, all the things that we're getting today on her.
Heidi Skodack 2:20 That's perfect, you have the sleeper makers are the best. They don't realize they like STEM and computer science, until they've actually gone and done job experiences or job shadows with other people to realize what they actually love to do is create and make and, in the space called early STEM.
Danelle Brostrom 2:38 So why, why are colleges and businesses, the workforce, why are we pushing kids to do STEM? Why are they looking for kids that are interested in STEM?
Heidi Skodack 2:47 There's a long answer and a short answer to that. The short answer really is that the jobs of the future really are going to be related to computer science, and science, technology, engineering, and math and how those you bring together to actually develop careers, based on those things. So computer scientist is one area that is a big push right now. They talk about, at code.org, they talk about the different areas and careers that you can go into related to STEM.
Larry Burden 3:15 So, again, huge researcher me. Not really. It seems like there is a giant gap in what industries need, what our job force, what is needed in the job force and what we are actually preparing kids for. How are we setting up kids, you know, through the Hour of Code, and through our programming in our classrooms, how are we setting kids up to be introduced to coding, or computer science?
Heidi Skodack 3:43 Well I think we have a lot of work to do. We certainly aren't where we need to be K through 12. And it's a difficult task because you're really thinking about things, and jobs of the future that don't exist yet. So that's, that's a big hurdle to overcome but getting students exposed at the earliest age; kindergarten, first grade, second grade, you know, that's where it all starts in jobs the future. If you're at all in tune with things that are happening in Traverse City there's, you know, a group called TC Connect, which has now joined up with the Chamber of Commerce, to talk about where the jobs are going to be in the future in Traverse City, and their goal really is to bring high tech jobs back to Traverse City, so our Boomerang students, our kids right, who go off to college and get a, or have education in the area of computer science, programming anything STEM, when they come back they have jobs. And so they recognize the need, our local need for building that capacity in our students and it has to start in K through 12. So how do we build that capacity at a young age, which means building capacity of the teachers to recognize the importance of implementing some STEM based activities and computer science activities in the classroom starting in kindergarten.
Danelle Brostrom 4:56 Do you think it's a, think it's a hard sell or do you think that's an easy sell. When you go out and talk to teachers about this, the new kinds of skills that our students need, do you, are teachers nodding and being like, Yeah, let's do it, let's go, or do they have some hesitations? Can you talk about that?
Heidi Skodack 5:12 I don't think I've run into anybody who has said, Do we really need that?
Danelle Brostrom 5:16 That's crazy.
Heidi Skodack 5:18 Yes, exactly. But I do run into apprehension because when I mean we're going to talk about really, you know, Hour of Code, I do run into some pushback in, I don't know how to code, how can I teach my kid, I have no experience at all in computer science or coding, how, how am I going to be able to teach that to my students? And so that's really what the conversation, that's where you get pushback from is, how can I do it I've never done it myself. Because as a teacher, you always want to be the expert in the room. Well those days are kind of gone. You have to be sometimes learning with the students on new ideas in, especially related to computer science.
Larry Burden 5:54 I have a weird question, and this is this kind of came to me right before the podcast. It's odd because when I was in high school, a millennia ago, there was a computer programming class, we had to take computer programming, it was just, it was one of those things, we think this is going to be important so we learned how to like, you know, do the if and then type of statements and it was really really basic, and then it seemed to like drop off the map for a while. And obviously now it's starting to be, starting to become re-ingrained in what we do, but why did it between the late 80's, early 90's and now, there was a gap where, I mean it was always it's kind of there but as far as a priority, a curricular priority, I don't think it was there.
Heidi Skodack 6:40 And that is absolutely true. What happened I mean, that was one of those like, Oregon Trail. Right?
Larry Burden 6:46 Exactly.
Heidi Skodack 6:47 Elementary school.
Danelle Brostrom 6:48 Right.
Heidi Skodack 6:49 So, but I do, I do think there in, in the past, you know, in the 90's people were using coding to do very particular jobs, right. And now everything you touch, a lot of times has some sort of coding in it. I mean, think about your cars, or your phones. I mean that was prior to cell phones really, that where everybody had a cell phone. So the technology that's been developed and just the amount of code that's needed to run those devices, and those different things has completely changed. So before it would be something large, like, you know when you're thinking about NASA, right? They're going to use, we would expect to see a bunch of coding in the 90's. But we didn't expect all those personal devices, and how rapidly the technology changed for the demand for that coding piece, and I also think it is part of that Maker Movement when you're able to go online and YouTube questions and answers on what you're trying to do yourself, and to try to problem solve those things, and do coding yourself. You can find thousands of web, websites that actually teach coding to all age groups.
Danelle Brostrom 7:54 That is the most amazing piece of this. My nine year old wants an alarm for her bedroom door for Christmas, that can keep her sister out. And I can go,
Heidi Skodack 8:03 She's gonna make it right.
Danelle Brostrom 8:04 Exactly, that's the thing. Because of course that's what she wants. But we can buy one for like $40 on Amazon, and it's this kid friendly, blah, blah, blah, that has a swipe card and stuff, or I just googled, how to do it, and found awesome instructions that were in plain English, with items I can go purchase right here, and I'm just gonna give her a box of stuff and she's gonna build it, and she's gonna code it. Like we can we can get the Raspberry Pi, we can do all these things that can make things happen and I think that's exciting for kids, and that's exciting for us, and it's incredible to me the amount of what you can do yourself really.
Heidi Skodack 8:40 And just the language like Raspberry Pi, right?
Larry Burden 8:43 yeah
Heidi Skodack 8:43 A lot of parents are like, the kids will ask for a Raspberry Pi and they're like, that's an easy gift. Run down to Grand Traverse Pie Company and pick up a rasberry pie.
Danelle Brostrom 8:51 We could get one of those too but.
Larry Burden 8:53 Just had one of those a couple days ago for Thanksgiving. It was fabulous.
Heidi Skodack 8:58 That's the interesting piece is that language sometimes, there's a language barrier between kids and their parents. And a lot of times they're purchasing things for their students that are related to technology, and coding, and computer science that they know nothing about. They recognize very clearly the need for, you know, exposing their students to new and different things related to those areas but a lot of times they don't know anything about it. So it's, it's scary, because there's the technology piece, like a lot of times what you deal with Danelle, balanced with dude, they're asking for something about STEM and computer science, tell me what else you want?
Danelle Brostrom 9:36 Yes, yes. So you mentioned the apprehension and not completely knowing everything and I totally see that when I'm out working with teachers, so tell us by the Hour of Code is such a perfect introduction, um such a perfect vehicle for teachers to do this.
Heidi Skodack 9:49 So the Hour of Code walks teachers with zero, or anybody for that matter, because I mean, part of the goal is to get the teachers interested with their students. The other is, how do we engage parents to do the Hour of Code at home, so they can actually see not only how easy it is, but the resources that are available for them to help their students in the future. So Hour of Code is a step-by-step, small little videos that if you're in the lower El. grades, you can show the video on your screen and then do the steps with the students on their own devices that they have. But really walks them through step-by-step and engaging things. So the, the new one really this year, or maybe it was out last year is dance party. So everyone likes dance party because students get to develop a character that does certain dance moves. You can make it dab right?
Danelle Brostrom 10:40 To Old Town Road, I may have been doing in my office this morning, it happens.
Heidi Skodack 10:43 You can select, you know, is it a bear, is it a frog, and then select the music that the frog will dance to, and really walk them through the process of movement and using block coding, which is really the basic beginning part of coding is drag and drop. So, it really, very descript, tells you exactly what is going to happen, and then you select features, and then you drag and drop to take those blocks and put them into a program. So it does give you the option if you're more advanced to actually see the code that's actually spitting out. Because you and I remember the days of, you know, what code looked like is very different. Block coding wasn't around and you are actually typing all those things and putting, you know, your pseudo code next to it so the next person who comes behind you, knows what you are coding. So, very different, very accessible, drag and drop clicks. If you don't get it right, there's a helper at the top that you can click on and it will walk you through the steps to fix your programming if it doesn't work. Typically, you can do it under an hour, a lot of times if you have, if you're little kids a lot of times play with video games and things like that. So, it might take you under an hour to do it. Usually kids are faster than the teachers, when the teachers are just learning. But everybody has fun. Jame McCall is gonna do a little coding session for us too. We want to show how easy it is. I'm gonna see if I can recruit some, a couple principals.
Larry Burden 12:08 If she could do it, everybody can do it.
Heidi Skodack 12:10 Yes.
Larry Burden 12:11 Sorry Jame, sorry,
Heidi Skodack 12:13 So just to, just to show people with no experience have gone in and done a lesson on coding in an hour or less. And just that exposure to just that process, that thinking process of what do I want to do, you have to really think about what your end product is.
Danelle Brostrom 12:29 Code.org has done an amazing job of bringing in all these different Hour of Code resources. They are there aren't just, you know, four or five that you get to pick from. There really are, maybe 100 different ones.
Larry Burden 12:39 So many.
Danelle Brostrom 12:40 Yep, and some are unplugged so some don't use any devices. There's some, some really really basic ones that are great for pre-readers, where they're just moving along. And then there's, like, like how you mentioned, the ones that are all the way where you can actually write the code, and you can actually develop your own app., or create something from scratch. I think the, the amount of options that are there can sometimes be overwhelming too, but as a teacher I just grabbed one and started playing it and was like, Oh, this one would be great for my kids. And like that, that's an easy way to, to kind of get started. And I cannot stress how user friendly the products are too, because I've been in a classroom with kids, and the kids are like, I'm stuck I don't know where to go, and I look at it and I have no idea where to go, and I can't figure out what the problem is, and I just asked. I'm like hey, anyone got puzzle eight on the Star Wars one, and then some kid comes over and helps them and I'm like woo. Yes, I don't have to do that one. But, just to see the kids persevere and get help from their neighbors, like there's, there's so many good skills that are happening when kids are doing this Hour of Code.
Larry Burden 13:41 I can't stress this enough, pre-reader. This is for every single classroom in any school district, even without a device. I was talking to my wife this morning about Hour of Code. She has a toddler classroom.
Heidi Skodack 13:41 Yes,
Larry Burden 13:42 I'm pretty sure there's probably something for your classroom.
Heidi Skodack 13:55 Yes there is, Pre-K.
Larry Burden 13:59 So toddler, toddler, all the way to your seniors, every classroom in the school district, could be doing something involving Hour of Code. That's so cool.
Heidi Skodack 14:12 And that's just a drop in the bucket, I mean Hour of Code is a drop a bucket. But it really could spur some interest in other things for the students. So, well worth it. So, I mean that's why we want to really blow up Hour of Code, create a little competition. I know really it's a joint collaboration between, you know STEM and the Technology Department to be able to support teachers as they attempt to do the Hour of Code with their students. So I'm really excited about it.
Larry Burden 14:40 So, I have a question. How do we embed STEM education, this the big, this is the big question. This is going right in there. How do we embed STEM education in our curriculum, especially in that Lower-El, Upper-El area. You know, we have classes, and we're developing more classes in our high schools, in our middle schools. I don't think we've got enough, really, to and I don't think it's, it's mandated, the way we would probably really need it to be for it to be successful, as successful as it should be in our public schools, but I really think due to time constraints or, again, some mandates, what can we do to get it more embedded in our curriculum in those elementary years? Big question.
Heidi Skodack 15:29 Well that, that is the question. I thought you had the answer to that.
Larry Burden 15:35 Way above my pay grade.
Danelle Brostrom 15:36 I promised her not difficult questions Larry.
Heidi Skodack 15:40 That actually is an excellent question. It's one that we have struggled with for a long time because of the time constraints especially Elementary. So, one of the biggest things that came into play was, if we were talking about our Math and ELA, there's a little bit of a hierarchy to, you know, core curriculum. So, a lot of times, ELA and Math gets the majority of the time that teachers spend. And then Science and Social Studies, and the question is is where does STEM fit in. Because STEM stands for: Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math, and it's not those individually, it's the collaboration of all together, right? So where do we find places in the curriculum that already exist, where we can make sure that we're identifying and emphasizing those STEM activities that are taking place. It's really project-based, hands-on learning and the integration of all of that together. And so, the biggest question we had is, how are we going to fit it in? Our answer right now is that we are implementing the FOSS Science Curriculum, right. We're trying to kill two birds with one stone because FOSS has STEM embedded activities within the FOSS program. And so it's not only teaching science, but the students in their activities are incorporating those STEM pieces in there. So we're not only covering topics within, how you do a project-based learning related to STEM, but we're also covering our science standards within there. And so our avenue right now is using the FOSS curriculum to embed some of those STEM activities. Because, I was constantly brought back to the fact that we can do all these outside STEM activities: robotics, tech-girls, you know recycle racers, and the things that we offer in the district, but our goal is to reach every single student, and how do we give every single student the opportunity. Science and FOSS was the solution because it actually embedded it and we could use it all at the same time. Really, that was the passion, how can we include it where kids going to see it every day. So right now we have it rolled into fourth and fifth grade. Third tri we'll get it rolled into the FOSS science curriculum into third grade. So we'll have third, fourth, and fifth grade, with FOSS science and embedded STEM curriculum within those units of study for the students. So, not a full fix yet, but at least we know that we're at least getting it to every student in third, fourth, and fifth grade.
Larry Burden 18:03 Definite step in the right direction.
Danelle Brostrom 18:05 This kind of transformation isn't going to move as quickly as we want it to. It just isn't because it's so very different and you are talking about more of the project-based learning, and the making, and that's, it's just very different. So I think it's okay to work slowly in that respect.
Heidi Skodack 18:21 And Danelle, you and I have had many conversations about silos, and breaking down those silos and
Danelle Brostrom 18:26 That's hard,
Heidi Skodack 18:26 It's when those pieces happen, when all those are coming together that you see awesome results and excitement in students for learning as well as a deeper understanding because they have the application.
Larry Burden 18:40 It could be argued that the STEM curriculum is already there. It's the STEM mindset, and the STEM activities in the curriculum that isn't there. So really, it is, it's just finding, it's finding curriculum that has that, that Maker mindset involved. It's finding that math curriculum, or incorporating a Making mindset into the current math, math curriculum that will bring STEM into what we do in the classroom.
Heidi Skodack 19:06 We'll get into it later I think when we talk about computational thinking. And, and those are all aspects of things we want students to experience and do, but it's about how you're doing that together as one instead of, I'm just going to do math, I'm just going to do science, I'm just going to do tech. It's when they all come together.
Danelle Brostrom 19:24 And that's where our worlds overlap, because that's 100% what those ISTE Standards are about and specifically...
Larry Burden 19:31 Great segue, that was awesome.
Danelle Brostrom 19:32 I know right, I was already gonna talk about the computational thinking stuff, but, but yeah computational thinking is a big part of those ISTE Standards so even if the kids don't go into coding, when they're learning to code they're being a better thinker, and they're breaking up problems into simpler parts, and improving their designs over time. All those kinds of things are the core pieces of computational thinking, but they're good to know no matter what you're doing. Right? They're good everywhere, no matter what industry you're in. I mean, I can't tell you how many times, I'm not coding but I'm definitely trying to solve problems and changing up my plan because that didn't work.
Heidi Skodack 20:08 Right, whether you're on the side of doing the coding, or on the other side where you're actually operating the machine that has all the coding in it. I mean, there has to be that thought process of, you know, what is happening when a problem occurs? You know, what, how do I solve that problem? Is it a call to tech right away for some support or is it something I problem solve myself? Because the, the tools that we're, even if you're not on the side of coding, the tools that we're using are so high tech now you have to be able to have some of those problem solving skills built in, no matter what your job is or where you are.
Danelle Brostrom 20:39 Can you talk to us about the new K-12, Computer Science Standards? I'm so excited about these and I know you are too, so.
Heidi Skodack 20:44 So, Computer Science Standards were adopted last year at the end of the year. And those really require all students to have K through 12, computer science experience. And again it's designed around the same things, the ISTE standards, the STEM Standards, getting more STEM into schools, and Computer Science Standards, and what those look like. The good news is, is that the, as a state we recognize the importance of it. Are we ahead of the game? Not at all. I don't think at all in Michigan as far as computer science goes. But we're getting there. And the point is, we're doing it right direction. We have a couple of things going in. I went to Computer Science Summit in Arkansas, believe it or not. So, to myself I said, really, there's a lot of computer science going on, Arkansas?
Danelle Brostrom 20:45 Go check it out.
Heidi Skodack 20:51 Yeah, go check it out. So I went. And, it really was a summit from all the governors throughout the United States that were there, and talked about what programs they were implementing, and what kind of funding they had behind the support. And Hattie he was there to talk to us. Had a good chat with him, and I was really interested in how far ahead Arkansas was, South Carolina was, in their implementation of computer science standards. But one of the things that was critical was the piece that number one, you had adopted standards in your state, and the second piece is that they had somebody leading it at the state level, which is coming as well. That's coming next, is where we will have a person that actually leads, what is the implementation of computer science going to look like in schools, and what resources do we have available. Because we know, sometimes we get mandates and we don't necessarily have all the resources. But it's how we respond to what is coming that really makes the difference. So I think our attempt at blowing up code.org or blowing up our code this year, we'll, we'll put a little bit of dent in it. But the standards are very clearly outlined, and they're very simple at the elementary levels, but it really is about the process of thinking and problem solving. It's going to be great, but it's also going to, we have to again, adjust and adapt to how is that going to fit in the curriculum. Do we force it in somewhere? So it's really about again, intentionally looking at what is already offered, where does it naturally make sense to put lessons and computer science in K through 12, and starting to think about it before we have some sort of mandate as far as what that's gonna look like. That work excites me, simply because it's good for kids and you're looking for ways to give them more exposure
Danelle Brostrom 23:18 And Heidi, I have to say too I'm so excited to see the digital citizenship portions, and cybersecurity written into those K-12 Computer Science Standards because even, and I'm looking at the lower elementary standards right now, and they're talking about networks and the internet, explain what passwords are and why we use them, and why we have to use strong passwords to protect our devices. Like yes, and then there's under impacts of computing, work respectfully and responsibly with others online, keep logging information private, logoff devices appropriately. Like, all those things we talked about in the digital citizenship realm, I'm seeing embedded in these standards too, which is beautiful.
Heidi Skodack 23:56 I mean, that becomes, just the way we do business.
Larry Burden 23:59 If you're going to teach computer science, you probably should teach how to, teach our students how to do it appropriately.
Danelle Brostrom 24:05 And how to do it safely.
Larry Burden 24:06 It's a foundational, fundamental piece. We were talking about definitions earlier. So now you know we've dropped computer science and computer programming and STEM and all these things, and coding. They're all separate things. What are some of those definitions when we talk computer science, what are we, what are we saying?
Danelle Brostrom 24:22 I get them all mixed up, I'll be honest. Help us Heidi.
Heidi Skodack 24:27 I don't know if I have the answer to that one. Computer science is the broader picture, right? Computer science really encompasses all those different areas, and jobs and activities, like the umbrella that then coding and programming, you know, would be under. That's how I would probably define it.
Larry Burden 24:45 I think it's important to say that because I think sometimes especially our students and maybe even our parents have a, they see computer science, and they immediately think okay this is Calc three minimum. We're talking about this fear of math that we're trying to get over. And the,
Heidi Skodack 24:46 What is that? I don't now what that is.
Larry Burden 25:06 And I think sometimes when we say computer science, people immediately go there and that's not, it's so much more than that. A softening of that definition for people that are looking. Again, I'm, I'm looking at marketing to my child. And I'm thinking, if I say, well, honey, you need to pursue a career in computer science.
Danelle Brostrom 25:29 Think that's nerds behind their computer, but it's not!
Larry Burden 25:33 Yeah that's probably not going to be successful so. But then if I started talking about what coding means, and what programming means, and what work in a 3D realm means, and all the, all the potential applications of computer science, suddenly, that's a lot, shinier.
Heidi Skodack 25:51 I think a lot of times when you think of it related to careers. So, if you take those, that language out of there. I mean now that you have to, but if you take the language out of there about coding, and computer science but if you're working with students, you're talking about what are you interested in for your careers, and connecting those pathways of how is computer science embedded in those careers that you think you want to do? That's where you get kids connected. You know, if you talk about computer science or coding, they picture somebody in a cube farm all day just doing coding. That's not what it is. You know computer science could be thousands and thousands of careers related to computer science that people don't realize that, that are there. I mean, I think about the engineering classes at West and at Central, and even in their laser cutting machines and their small CNC machines that they have, that's all computer programming. So the person that's operating that and designing, doing the design and the making, and making decisions on where should that piece be cut out, how deep should the cut be and what is the location on the X, Y and Z axis, that's all, that's all related to computer science and coding. So I think when you have it in the conversations of careers, and then talk about how those computer science principles are linked to those, then that kind of breaks down a few barriers, than the picture of somebody sitting in a cube farm coding.
Danelle Brostrom 27:12 I think the more we can lean on their passions too, and then help show them how they can connect. Again, I think of my own child who her passions are animals, and taking things apart, and creating things. And then I watched her, she was reading that "Beauty and the Beak," book where they 3D print the beak for the eagle who doesn't have one, or it gets broken or somehow. And I remember seeing her eyes light up and she was like, "I could do this," and it was like, yes, yes you could. So just sometimes it's connecting those dots for kids because they don't realize that their passion for dance could go along with this really cool thing where they're coding the LED lights on the dance, you know what I mean it just, just connecting those dots.
Heidi Skodack 27:54 You know the design prosthetics which what you're talking about which has been, that field has completely changed. Because if you remember this, I always found this interesting because I thought, god if I was going to school again that would be very interesting to me. Right. You know when you think about prosthetics that were done in the 90's right, compared to what we see now, it's basically an artistry, that they do. It's out of chrome, and different materials, and metals and, and the design, in that art piece that design piece is an element that is seen throughout. As well as materials. I mean that science behind, behind the materials that they're choosing. I mean if you're running in the Paralympics we see the different things that they use there. But just that change in, it's not only functional, but it's aesthetically pleasing, and you're making decisions on materials and design. So, that area was always of interest to me because that has changed so rapidly lately.
Danelle Brostrom 28:52 There's your "A," Larry. Your "A," in STEAM.
Larry Burden 28:55 I was going to bring that up, so what subjects, this is on code.org, their little marketing slideshow had a slide, what subjects do students like a lot in high school? Not surprisingly, the highest was art and design, second was performing arts, third, computer science and engineering. Now I would argue, art and design right now is computer science. If you're going to get into the field of Art and Design, well not even behind. I mean if you're doing, and certainly in performing arts, if you're doing anything in, in theater in the background or in film in the background. You're going to do 3D modeling. You're going to, it's all programming now, it's all computer science, it's all understanding those processes. If you're in computer gaming and doing the art for that, 3D modeling, 3D rendering. Art and design and performing arts, just wrap it into the computer sciences, really. It doesn't sound as sexy.
Heidi Skodack 29:52 Yes, and even in architecture. The flip time, and the expectation of time to get a set of plans done in do that modeling, that visualization modeling, completely changed. You used to have weeks in between and now the expectation because we have all these tools, because of computer science that we're able to use and do projects more quickly, right. So now we're spending our money on technology, and our time is decreasing, but the expectation is increasing, of what the expectations are. Same thing in theater arts, when you're designing those stagecraft, and,
Larry Burden 30:28 Those sets that they put together now.
Heidi Skodack 30:29 Those sets are done all ahead of time, including like how they're going to work. So those moveable pieces, like what do those gears look like, and how is that rotating. So more time is spent on the pre-planning, than it is on actually the design, construct, building so that is all done ahead of time in the design process that's amazing.
Danelle Brostrom 30:49 Heidi are we still seeing a gap in the amount of girls and minorities that are going into STEM fields, and doing coding or is that kind of changing do you think?
Heidi Skodack 30:57 It is changing. We're doing better, but we're still not there yet. Females and minorities in general, you know, to increase enrollment and excitement about going into those fields is super important. To have those diverse conversations with different people at the table is super important. So the more we can help students or guide them in that direction, you know you don't want to force somebody, you know, to do it. But certainly, you have to make sure that they had an opportunity to make that choice.
Danelle Brostrom 31:25 For sure.
Larry Burden 31:26 An educated choice.
Heidi Skodack 31:27 Yes.
Danelle Brostrom 31:27 And girls will typically look at coding in different ways to. Like isn't it true that they'll try to fix the problem, or try to create something that will make a difference. Like that's kind of what usually brings girls to the table. We need those kinds of, of students. And I love what you're doing with TechGirls. Can you talk about TechGirls real quick because I think that's such a cool thing that we're doing in our region.
Heidi Skodack 31:46 TechGirls, I actually started a group when I was in Farmington, but we started a group up here at Central in 2016, and their mission really is to increase awareness for females and minorities in anything related to STEM. And they won a grant last year to allow them to expand to West Senior High. They reached out to Elk Rapids, and did a lesson with a second grade class. Within the community, they volunteer at a Senior Citizens Center, helping them with their technology. They've done Recycle Racers with our kids at Eastern and then throughout the district last year. But really, their mission is to, you know, really build that mentorship so it's so important for them to see young women in those roles of leaders, that are leading those areas of technology and in STEM, and to know that there's a pathway for them moving forward. One of our TechGirls actually, you probably already heard the news on her last year, was Elizabeth Sanders won the Congressional App Award, and went to Washington DC, based on an app that she designed. And her app, of course, right about helping people. So her's was the Calc-u-saver, and you can actually download it online, and looks like a calculator, but if you're in a dangerous situation you can punch in your numbers, looks like a calculator, and it will send a message to your person to say, you know, come and pick me up. It has the location sensor on it you know, so they know where to pick you up and to call you back to get you out of that situation that you feel is uncomfortable or dangerous. So kudos to,
Danelle Brostrom 33:23 It's amazing.
Heidi Skodack 33:24 our TechGirl. So we're still working to expand that. I mean the goal would be lovely to have it at every school in the district but slow growth there. But we're working on it.
Danelle Brostrom 33:33 But you are, I mean you kind of do have it in every school because the little's see these high school girls that are, you know, it's a high schooler who, who's interested in the same kinds of things I am, and they're so cool, and I could do that. So, I mean I know that they're just based at our secondaries but man, the impact is so cool across the district.
Heidi Skodack 33:54 Getting there. And they're a great group of girls, and they volunteer for just about anything. And we can always count on them. So super proud of them.
Larry Burden 34:01 I have to say last question, if you have any other questions 'cause we are way over.
Danelle Brostrom 34:07 Well I was just gonna say, is there anything else that, that we didn't touch on that, that you want to share, that you want to talk about. Anything that you're like, oh, I wish they would have asked me that.
Heidi Skodack 34:15 Just that Hour of Code, the dates for the Hour of Code are December 9 through the 15th, but we've actually extended it through the 18th. Just make sure you get in your Hour of Code, and if there's any teachers that are interested or need help, contact, Danelle or myself, and we'll be happy to get them set up. Our goal was to create a competition, we want to see how many east side versus west side we're able to do the coding, and kind of have a leaderboard that's going to be on a website that we'll share with teachers and principals.
Larry Burden 34:46 Sounds great. TechTool of the Week!
TechTool of the Week 34:51 TechTool of the week, I just want to mention there are a ton of great resources for educators who are interested in doing coding in their classroom. Code.org has the HourofCode.com. There are posters that you can download and hang up. There are stickers that you can order. Then all of the different activities, and games, and things. And then don't forget about REMC, our local REMC has some different items that you can do coding with. If you go into their system and search for STEM, you can get things like: bloxals, Dash and Dot, Little Bits, Ozobots, Fearow and the drone, all those kinds of things you can do coding with as well, and they're, they're hands on. And then, if you're not local there are other REMC's do different things. Some REMC's I know have Microbits or the Osmos that you can check out that you can do coding with. But just definitely check and see what your REMC offers through that Classroom Makers Project because there are a lot of great resources over there.
Larry Burden 35:42 You mentioned drones and we should have hit on the drone thing. We'll get it next time, we'll get it next time. Tutorials and updates, just wanted to say, you know, last week we did that, the annual EdTech Loop Gift Guide, there's some great STEM gifts, great STEM gifts in that guide, so give that a listen, that pod listen. It was a really fun show. I want to also give a shout out to an upcoming special 100th episode of the EdTech Loop podcast on digital citizenship. It is like a digital citizenship blowout. Has all the information so look for that in the upcoming weeks. In closing, follow us on Facebook and Twitter at @tcapsloop
Danelle Brostrom 36:19 @brostromda
Heidi Skodack 36:20 @skodack
Larry Burden 36:21 Bam! Subscribe to the podcast on Podbean, iTunes, Stitcher, Tune-in, Downcast, Overcast, the Google Play Store, Spotify or wherever else you get your ear candy. Leave a review, we'd love the feedback. Thanks for listening and inspiring.
Danelle Brostrom 36:38 I can't see the time from where I'm sitting.

EdTech Loop Ep. 98: The Annual Gift Guide

There's no need to get into any Black Friday lines this year. EdTech Loop already has you covered with the best gifts for the holiday season!
Podcast Transcript
Larry Burden 0:03 No, that will not do.
Larry Burden 0:11 double check we're recording here.
Larry Burden 0:13 I'm very happy somebody prepped for this pod.
Stephie Luyt 0:15 I know.
Larry Burden 0:16 Not this guy.
Danelle Brostrom 0:16 Let's just scrap this one.
Stephie Luyt 0:18 Almost 40 is not old.
Larry Burden 0:19 Bada Boom Bada Bing
Larry Burden 0:26 It's Episode 98 of the EdTech Loop podcast My name is Larry Burden and she's planning to virtually camp out in Amazon's Black Friday line as soon as this podcast ends. it's Danelle Brostrom. And we are also joined by one of our favorite things Stephie Luyt. I've dug deep into the bargain bin for this week's moment of Zen.
Moment of Zen 0:46 Blessed is the season which engages the whole world in a conspiracy of love.
Larry Burden 0:51 This pod might be a little late, as we wait to thaw this week's meat the show: the Annual Loop Holiday Gift Giving Guide. So guys, it's almost that time of the year. Next week, this blew me away by the way, you know, you start to see some Black Friday stuff, you know, coming in the mail and here and there and I'm like oh my gosh. So early this year. And then it hit me, it's next week.
Danelle Brostrom 1:19 Crazy.
Stephie Luyt 1:19 Yeah,
Larry Burden 1:20 So, help, help me out. We were talking before the pod, I am completely unprepared for the holiday season this year so enlighten me as to what, what are some wonderful things we can get for our people that we love.
Danelle Brostrom 1:33 Do you want to go first?
Stephie Luyt 1:34 I will, and I have a major theme because all of what I brought are, I brought book ideas. And part of that is because I just came back from a conference. So I was at the American Association of School Librarians conference and there were many authors and illustrators there. And, you know, you can't go wrong with a book. And so what I have is a range of books from our, for our littles up to our high school kiddos. Some you may have heard about because some have gotten some press and some are, were new to me. Let me start with the littles, and this book, it's called "Another," by Christian Robinson, and it is a sci-fi fantasy picture book that is wordless. So that's a lot. If you think about all that in all of those elements in a picture book without words for littles, preschool. The art is beautiful and there's an alternate universe that the kiddo and the animal take a little journey in. And I just, I'm so intrigued by this concept, and already there are multiple accolades rolling in for this book. So as we're getting close to my favorite time with the Caldicot, Newbery awards, I think we'll hear a lot more about, "Another." But put that one on your list if you have littles.
Larry Burden 2:53 What a great way to introduce our littlest ones to narrative.
Stephie Luyt 2:58 Yes,
Larry Burden 2:59 Get them understanding the concept of storytelling and story. So that when we're introducing them to words and vocabulary and reading, they already have an understanding of the structure...
Stephie Luyt 3:13 Absolutely
Larry Burden 3:14 of the story. Did you bring it?
Stephie Luyt 3:16 I didn't bring that one.
Larry Burden 3:20 The ultimate picture book and it's not here.
Stephie Luyt 3:22 It's not here but,
Larry Burden 3:23 because you recognized it's an audio podcast so why would you bring it.
Stephie Luyt 3:27 Well, partially because it's so popular right now I don't have a copy available, but I also, you know I come here and then I hold it up and you guys make fun of me.
Larry Burden 3:36 I would, I'm hurt, I would never.
Stephie Luyt 3:39 In the nicest way possible. So, maybe I'll give you a couple more of the littles and then we can go back and forth.
Danelle Brostrom 3:45 Deal.
Stephie Luyt 3:45 Okay, there's a book called, "The Undefeated," by Kwame Alexander and illustrated by Kadir Nelson, and if you're familiar with those names you probably have seen them in a number of other books. But this is a love letter to the experience of African Americans, and it actually was connected to an ESPN special called, "The Undefeated." But it is a poem, and the artwork by Kadir Nelson is photorealistic so his, his illustrations are as gorgeous as you can imagine. And topic wise, you know that's, there's some heavy stuff in there, and it's tells just a beautiful narrative of the experience of African Americans, touching on a lot of issues. But there's a lot of meat in this book and it's just gorgeous. So, I don't have it, but I can, I can, I can picture it in my mind.
Larry Burden 4:37 We trust you. We trust you.
Stephie Luyt 4:39 I've seen it and have, I highly recommend it. We do have it in a couple of libraries.
Larry Burden 4:44 What age group would that be?
Stephie Luyt 4:45 Well, you know I would call it for mid to upper elementary. I think the, the depth of some of the history would be more meaningful to older elementary and up, and older even kiddos. But in terms of the story, kids will understand it.
Larry Burden 5:02 And as we said before picture books aren't just for our,
Stephie Luyt 5:06 Correct.
Larry Burden 5:07 Lower El.,
Stephie Luyt 5:08 The book, "Another," by Christian Robinson, could be used at all levels. A wordless picture book, I mean kids of all ages and adults would tell a different story as they're looking through it, as you know all ages, it would, it appeals for everyone.
Larry Burden 5:20 It'd be perfect for a podcast studio. Oh that's right.
Stephie Luyt 5:25 Oh sorry guys.
Danelle Brostrom 5:26 Love it.
Stephie Luyt 5:26 And then another book that is, it was written by Sonia Sotomayor, from the Supreme Court, you may have heard of her, and Raphael Lopez is the illustrator. And it's called, "Just Ask." And it's all about kids who have any kind of, I would say, lack of a better word, difference. So kids who, it was written because Sonia Sotomayor was diagnosed with diabetes when she was a child, and she always felt like when she'd be having medication, or getting a shot, that kids were always curious and wondering, but people wouldn't ask. And so the book is all about how everybody has something that is on their plate that they're dealing with. And so it touches on ADHD, allergies, learning differences of all types, different types of disabilities, and the whole focus is, everybody has differences, let's, let's ask, let's be curious and it's, l et's talk about, and embrace, and celebrate these things that are, everybody has that are different. So beautiful illustrations again. Raphael Lopez has done a number of books and it's, it's a really neat partnership.
Danelle Brostrom 6:34 Amazing books. Thank you.
Stephie Luyt 6:36 You're welcome.
Danelle Brostrom 6:36 Well, I feel like I'm struggling to follow those because I brought all, like, fun tech things.
Stephie Luyt 6:44 I think that sounds perfect.
Danelle Brostrom 6:45 I feel like you need the balance which is why you should do both,
Stephie Luyt 6:47 Absolutely.
Danelle Brostrom 6:48 So talking about the things for the littles. I'll talk about my stuff for littles first. I want to remind everyone about Kiwi Crate. That is one of my favorite things. I think it's a great, holiday season is a great time to think about starting a Kiwi Crate because it's a gift that would last the entire year. It is either a simple, single kit, or you can set up with a subscription. So they would get one every single month. And they have crates all the way down to 0 to 2, 2 to 4, all the way up to 14 and up. And the crates are focused on making, they're focused on creativity, there's one that's focused on art, one is focused on tinkering. And it gives the kids all the things that they need to do this project. And it's pretty cool because when it comes, the kids, they smile, my own kids they make the project that's there. And it's pretty cool and it keeps us intrigued and entertained for a little while. And then I watch it kind of evolve, like I watch that project will change into something else and they'll try to figure out how they can change it and make it better. So I see them playing with it longer than just that first session, and I like that it brings new ideas into my house every month.
Stephie Luyt 7:55 Yep. And I think they've expanded one that's for, as you mentioned older kids and that that's newer. That is on my list of possibilities for my kiddos because we've never had it but my niece's do and they've loved it. And I always think to myself, you know I could gather all these materials and do this project.
Danelle Brostrom 8:13 But I won't.
Stephie Luyt 8:15 So, it's really nice that Kiwi Crate does that for you, if you might be like me and have plans but they might not always pan out.
Danelle Brostrom 8:24 I also hate buying all of this stuff. Like you know, my kid wanted to take this little basketball thing with pom poms, okay but we needed 2 pom poms. Pom Poms come in a bag
Stephie Luyt 8:33 Of 100.
Danelle Brostrom 8:33 Yes. So now I have 400 pom poms around my house that are ridiculous.
Larry Burden 8:39 You mocked me years ago, when I, when I was, we were talking about Makers, Makerspace and, and collecting the stuff and I pointed out, like, I get that, it's really cool, but the organize, organizing of it can be a little bit cumbersome so you really want to be thinking about that when you're getting all that stuff. and look how look how it comes back around.
Danelle Brostrom 8:59 It does come back around.
Stephie Luyt 9:01 The Wise One.
Danelle Brostrom 9:03 Thanks, Larry.
Larry Burden 9:04 Though, I will say, with that, I'm listening to these suggestions and my kids are a little bit older and I'm like, I wonder if that'd be appropriate for me? Maybe I can ask them to give that to me? Maybe I want a Kiwi Crate.
Danelle Brostrom 9:17 The ones for older kids are really, really cool. For 14 and up they offer two options. One is a Maker kit. And then this eureka kit, which is all about engineering and science. And, like the one example that they make, you make a desk lamp. They show you how to make a desk lamp that uses pulleys and springs to make an adjustable lamp with an LED bulb. It's so cool. I know, we should get them here for the, the pod. Ukulele, and electric pencil sharpener, like. Okay, my next option is going to be for like that elementary school age kiddo. I have a Fitbit, and I love my fitness tracker and my child wanted one, and I started looking online and I was kind of frustrated with the options that were available. They were all from other countries. I didn't know about the tracking. You know I'm a little crazy about privacy, I'm just sayin'.
Larry Burden 10:10 Thank you for that actually. Somebody needs to.
Stephie Luyt 10:12 Obsesively intentional.
Danelle Brostrom 10:13 I do, I do worry about things like that, but I know that she really wanted a fitness tracker. So I was so excited to,
Larry Burden 10:20 Not the worst thing for a child to be obsessed about,
Danelle Brostrom 10:22 I know, she wants to count her steps. Fitbit came out with a new one recently called the ACE2. And it's made specifically for kids so it has special swim proof protection. It has some kid friendly graphics that you can put on the front, some kid friendly stats and goals celebrations. But it also has a parent component. I like that you can set it up under a family sharing plan and then your kids because they're under 13 they're given the special protections with their data that should happen for an under 13 year old. And it also, you get to kind of decide what features they get. Like if they want to have step challenges with their friends, they can only do with people you approve. Like, it kind of helps give me some of the control back which I really, really like. And they're running about $70 which doesn't feel crazy expensive for this kind of a fitness tracker. But there are some other features that I think are really, really smart that are on here. There is a timer, which the kids can set from the device. Why do I love that? Because I think of ADHD kids when they're sitting in classroom, and they need things broken up, and they need to be able to stand and go walk around, they need to be able to set themselves a timer. So, in a classroom setting, having a timer go off, well all of a sudden that makes you the one that everyone's looking at. But to have it on your watch that just vibrates a little bit, that you can set yourself, I think, gives a little bit of independence. It just recognizes that kids like, kids might need that. So, I'm a huge fan of the Fitbit Ace2.
Stephie Luyt 11:49 Sounds like a really thoughtful tool to. Well designed with kids in mind.
Larry Burden 11:52 Awesome. Like I said, my kids are,
Danelle Brostrom 11:55 I'm looking at you waiting for your gifts Larry. What do you have?
Larry Burden 11:57 I have a piece of paper with some stuff on it, and some really, really, really, smart friends.
Stephie Luyt 12:02 I have this book with me. Now our listeners cannot see it but, "Astronaut, Aquanaut," so it is a nonfiction National Geographic Kids book by Jennifer Swanson and she had consultation by Fabian Cousteau. So Jacque Cousteau's, I believe, grandson. if you've, if you have a kiddo who, our you have ever wondered like what would it really be like to be an astronaut, and what would it be like to be an aquanaut, and all those questions that might be forming in your mind right now are answered in this book. And the kid kind of questions, like the nitty gritty of what you do when you are living under water or in space. How does, how did the basic things happen? And I love the amount of research that went into the book, and the detail. And just really providing like a typical day in space, a typical day in the deep sea. Really well researched, lots of primary sources. And this is for kind of your, again, upper elementary, just with the reading level and the amount of information. But if you have a kid who's curious about any of these areas, I would highly recommend this one. And then I have two graphic novels. Ridley Pearson is writing a series about the Super Sons. So it's the sons of Batman, and the sons of Superman, and their backstory and their narrative. So, looking at a whole 'nother part of the superheroes, from the point of view of their sons. And I love, love, love this. Meg Cabot, who wrote The Princess Diaries as well as another, a number of other books is also jumping into graphic novels. They actually, at a session I attended at the conference, a group of writers and illustrators were talking about how, you know as we've talked about on the pod, the graphic novels are very popular in comics. And so a number of kid lit authors and illustrators went to basically, comic boot camp. They brought a bunch of popular authors and illustrators together to learn more about the genre. So Meg Cabot's jumped into writing, this is more of a comic format. But it's a character, Black Canary, and this is called, "Ignite." And Black Canary is a teenager who wants to follow in her dad's footsteps, and be a detective in Gotham City, and doesn't have, doesn't believe she has any superpowers, but then discovers that she does. And, great coming of age story, great female empowerment, what she can do, what she can't do by, what society's letting her do. Loved it, it's going to be, there'll be a sequel, if not more. So, and this I have to say out of all the books, all the new books I brought back from the conference, two of my three kids have read this multiple times and loved it. So this one got high recommendations from my small sample at home, and I loved it too, and Black Canary's power is that she can,
Larry Burden 14:49 Do we want to
Stephie Luyt 14:50 Okay, maybe not.
Larry Burden 14:50 No spoilers. No spoilers.
Danelle Brostrom 14:52 Um, let me do one and then I'll bump it back to you. So thinking about your middle and high school students, or even your adults because I'm thinking I might want one of these to. I'm really excited by the Dribble Up Ball. Dribble up.com, they're offering three different options: a smart soccer ball, a smart basketball and a smart medicine ball. Now what I think is kind of interesting is that it started as Kickstarter in 2017, but really mainstream within the last couple months. I've seen a lot of people talking about them. And essentially, there's a little stand a little tripod that you put your smartphone in, and then you stand back with your smart ball, like your soccer ball, and you can practice toe tapping drills and it will show you exactly where the ball needs to be, and you get points when it hits there. The medicine ball one is kind of for adults. There's a six pound and a 10 pound and you can do the workout. And when you lift the ball up and you get it in the right spot, the smartphone can sense where it is and it gives you a point for that. So you get points by being accurate, you get points by doing it faster. There's a lot of professional soccer teams that are actually using this to improve their accuracy and speed with some of these drills to build muscle memory. I think it's really, really cool to think of how you could improve your ball control skills with these virtual coaches. I think it's really, really cool for kids. I think that this is going to be big this Christmas. Check out DribbleUp.com.
Larry Burden 16:16 I love that, that's so cool.
Danelle Brostrom 16:16 I know, I want one.
Danelle Brostrom 16:18 There's a REMC person downstate, her name is Ann Smart, and she is bringing this PD using the dribble a ball and math. And she's going and talking to teachers about how they can use this in the classroom to help kids build their math skills. I'm really intrigued with the work that she's doing around it, so keep an eye out for them.
Larry Burden 16:39 You know some of our physical education teachers in elementary have used, or incorporated literature and some language arts into their, their classes and their lessons. What a great way to incorporate math for some cross curricular activities. I mean so, so cool.
Danelle Brostrom 16:57 Yeah, and it gets kids moving
Stephie Luyt 16:57 Really cool.
Danelle Brostrom 16:59 Yeah.
Stephie Luyt 16:59 A couple for middle school in particular. "Song for a Whale," so this book is about a deaf student who learns about a whale who's unable to communicate with other whales, and feels that she wants to help this whale. So she goes on this journey with the support of some characters. One thing I found really interesting is the author, Lynn Kelly, is a sign language interpreter herself. So she has a lot of experience working with people with hearing differences. And this is, you know, a kiddo who isn't feeling like she fits in and wants to reach out and help another creature that isn't fitting in. And it's this really exciting journey. And so kiddos, middle grade readers who love animals would be really drawn to this book and the power of this story is what recommends it to. A book called, "Other Words for Home," by Jasmine Warga, is a book told in verse, a novel in verse. And this is the story of a family who comes into Cincinnati from Syria and their experiences. They assimilate, and then as other relatives join her family seeing how she's come and changed, and her experiences and in her new area. What home means, what family means. I love that its in verse. It's another form for kids to really enjoy, and similar to "The Undefeated," being told as a poem form. So, "Other Words for Home," it's that one.
Danelle Brostrom 18:24 I only have one more. The last thing I'm going to mention is, so thinking about the holidays, it's a great time to add board games into your collection. Board games are great way to get the family together, and get them talking. One of my all time favorite board games is called Prime Climb.
Larry Burden 18:41 We've seen this, yeah.
Danelle Brostrom 18:42 I feel like I need to mention it every time because it's so good. Math for Love is the company that makes it, and it makes some other games for kids. Little Pok-a-Dot it out is another good one. But Prime Climb is, it's beautiful first of all, but then the mathematics involved, it's funny because I play it with my older child, and we change the rules a little bit because typically what you have to do, you roll the dice and then you can choose either to add, subtract, multiply or divide the number on your pawn by the number you roll. Like there's a lot of different computational thinking that's happening when kids are playing this game. But we changed the rules a little bit because division is still tricky for her, so I told her you can either add or multiply, we just kind of changed that a little bit. And then it was funny because then she played with my husband and he made a play by the rules which was a very different game for her. But then he came to me afterward, and he's a grown adult, and he was like that game was really fun. Like yeah it is, though it's really fun for adults, it's really fun for kids. There's a lot of thinking, and I kind of like that you get to control what you do. You have two pawns you can choose to move which one, you can choose which one you want to move, you can choose whether you want to bump somebody, there's just a lot of different choices you can make, and a lot of computational thinking and math that happens, and a lot of talking and fun. So, I would put Prime Climb on the list every time.
Stephie Luyt 20:00 I just added that to my shopping list. I have just one more book that I want to talk about, it's called, "Beauty Queens," by Libba Bray, it's a read alike for Lord of the Flies. So, there's an airplane crash with a group of girls who are headed to a beauty pageant. It is a story of what they do and the society that they form, and how they survive. And knocking out stereotypes, and looking at societal expectations. A fast moving, very creative take if you remember how the Lord of the Flies plays out. I highly recommend this one.
Larry Burden 20:38 In my attempts, my vain attempts to do some research I came across the Harry Potter Kano Coding Kit.
Danelle Brostrom 20:46 Oh Kano.
Stephie Luyt 20:47 Oh yeah.
Larry Burden 20:48 And you actually get a wand
Danelle Brostrom 20:49 There's a Harry Potter one now?
Larry Burden 20:51 You get a wand and you actually cast spells in code.
Danelle Brostrom 20:56 Larry.
Larry Burden 20:57 So, I don't know if it's good. I don't know if it's, you know, it's Harry Potter so like, kids aren't going to like it. Everybody's all over...I got one!
Danelle Brostrom 21:06 Well it's the Kano Kit to which has a good reputation.
Larry Burden 21:11 I was just kind of going through like Harry Potter and coding? That sounds okay.
Stephie Luyt 21:15 Yeah! Build a wand, learn to code, make magic.
Larry Burden 21:18 If somebody has that, please let us know what they think of it. What age groups would be appropriate for that. It's six and up, I saw but, right, it's Harry Potter so.
Danelle Brostrom 21:28 I would play it. Yet another thing we need to get for the Loop.
Stephie Luyt 21:33 We might need to test that on the pod.
Danelle Brostrom 21:34 I think we should.
Larry Burden 21:35 Are we all set.
Danelle Brostrom 21:36 We're set.
Techtool of the Week 21:36 TechTool of the Week.
Danelle Brostrom 21:41 TechTool of the Week. Purdue University, this is where I get my ideas from frankly. Every single year they put out an Engineering Gift Guide, and their gifts that they choose are tested by their engineering students, and they're looking for things that have good gameplay, that are quality, that have those open ended experiences that families can play together. And the quality of items that come out of there are just fantastic. They do include some books Stephie, but the books are things like, "Baby Learns to be a Structural Engineer." It sounds fantastic! But there are things for littles that they can do, all the way up to things that you would really be buying for your high school or older students. So the Purdue Engineering Gift Guide is phenomenal every single year. So check that out. It's great books, there's great stuff on there to. They also talked about Kiwi, they also talked about the Osmo which we talked about before that offers some hands on things with the, with the device. The Sphero, I think made that as well, which is a little coding robot. There's some good stuff on there.
Stephie Luyt 22:44 This is going to be very helpful for shopping at my house.
Larry Burden 22:48 And she's just basically gonna go down that list, check, check. Somebody already made my list, fabulous.
Stephie Luyt 22:54 Thank you.
Larry Burden 22:55 Tutorials and updates, I was just gonna say that, look for some new stuff, some additional content that's going to be on our podcast site upcoming. Danelle, and David, send out these great emails, tech resource emails, throughout the week and asked them, I didn't here back from Danelle...
Danelle Brostrom 23:13 You'd like to steal them.
Larry Burden 23:14 I want to steal them.
Danelle Brostrom 23:15 You may.
Larry Burden 23:15 Well you know, great, it's great content, and it'd be nice to get more people looking at that. More people can look at it, the more successful they will be with technology in the classroom. So, in closing, follow us on Facebook and Twitter @TCAPSLoop,
Danelle Brostrom 23:29 @brostromda.
Stephie Luyt 23:31 @StephieLuyt
Larry Burden 23:32 Subscribe to the podcast on podbean, iTunes, Stitcher, Tune-in, Downcast, Overcast, Spotify, the Google Play Store or wherever else you get your ear candy, leave a review, we love the feedback. Thanks for listening, and inspiring.
Stephie Luyt 23:47 Is the downcast, up... like all those things, are those real?
Transcribed by https://otter.ai

EdTech Loop Ep. 97: MiSTEM Heats Up

Why is STEM so important in Michigan right now? Because Michigan businesses need STEM educated workers and currently those workers are not available. Businesses struggle to understand why it appears public education is not producing the workforce they need, while educators are attempting to teach kids collaboration, creative thinking and other 21st Century Skills, while navigating another legislative edict, state standards, and school district goals. Our guest Drea Weiner from MiSTEM is attempting to repair that disconnect, and helping to make education applicable to a real world setting by fitting STEM into the curriculum to meet the needs that businesses are desperately crying out for.
Elementary is Engineering Workshop
November 26th
TCAPS Sabin Data Center
 
Acronym List
MiSTEM - Michigan Science, Technology, Engineering and Math Network
TBAISD - Traverse Bay Intermediate School District
CHAREMISD - Charelvoix - Emmet Intermediate School District
ELA - English Language Arts
REMC - Regional Education Materials Center
METS - Michigan Education Technology Specialists
EVR - Experience Verification Route
EIE - Elementary is Engineering
REMC RITS - REMC Instructional Technology Specialists
SEL - Social Emotional Learning
DigCit - Digital Citizenship
 
 
Full Transcript:
Drea Weiner 0:02 I'm pretending like I know what I'm doing but I don't actually know what I'm doing most days.
Larry Burden 0:11 The most important thing we can teach our kids is to recognize that everybody's just winging it.
Drea Weiner 0:15 Because you need to integrate that with your content.
Larry Burden 0:19 I want to do that. That looks like more fun.
Larry Burden 0:26 It's Episode 97 of the EdTechLoop podcast. My name is Larry Burden and she's been attempting to 3D print snow tires for her Hyundai Elantra, it's Danelle Brostrom, and we are also joined by Northern Michigan Sensei of STEM, it's Drea Weiner. Multiple snow days have allowed for additional time to meditate on this week's moment of Zen.
Moment of Zen 0:47 To appreciate the beauty of a snowflake. It is necessary to stand out in the cold.
Larry Burden 0:52 After several field attempts to brave the icy roads we've decided to stay home and fabricate this week's meat of the show. STEM heats up in Northern Michigan.
Danelle Brostrom 1:03 I wasn't ready for any of that Larry.
Larry Burden 1:03 I worked really hard to come up with a title.
Danelle Brostrom 1:03 It took you all week to write, didn't it?
Larry Burden 1:04 So I worked...
Larry Burden 1:10 Naw, about the last 15 minutes. Come on, there's no prep here. Okay, so thank you for joining us Drea, because I know your schedule is crazy. We've got tons of questions about what you do and what's happening with STEM in northern Michigan. I don't think we've actually covered a lot of STEM so far this year now so fill us in.
Drea Weiner 1:34 First one in. So yeah, so I'm the Regional Director for the MiSTEM network, and the MiSTEM network is a statewide effort to make sure that there's a cross curricular look at science, technology, engineering and mathematics, are we teaching those areas, are we teaching them in an integrated way, are we teaching them in a way that prepare our students for life beyond school, are we teaching them in a way that's applicable to the workforce. So that's kind of MiSTEM network, in a nutshell. I can talk to you about that for like hours on end but we'll, we'll end on that particular note.
Larry Burden 2:07 go ahead, you've got questions galore. Don't wait for me to just jump right in.
Danelle Brostrom 2:11 No, I'm just curious about the connection with business, you know and typically in schools we think about how, how we're teaching these skills, kind of on our own. Can you talk to me about the connection with business, why is that important?
Drea Weiner 2:22 So I would say that this is important because right now in Michigan, businesses do not want to engage, they do not want to invest in education. They do not understand the importance of engaging in education because they're having to do a lot of apprenticeships, a lot of workforce, work based learning within their own house because kids do not have the skill sets and which they need, and that's everything that's been expressed for me, like kids cannot problem solve, kids cannot critically think, they're not showing up on time, they don't have basic mathematics skills, they don't understand taxes which is, I don't know if I always fully understand taxes to be completely honest, but like having to sit down and explain, like here's the math on how you budget out your life because we do withhold your taxes from, from this end of things. So, from the business end of things they're just like we, we don't understand, you're not giving us what we need. Now from the educator side of things, here really like we're in charge of these kids from eight until three or whatever your school day is and like we're teaching your kids collaboration, and how to talk to each other, and here's the content that we're teaching in them, and here's like another legislative edict, and here's what our school districts coming from and, like, there's all these different components from a teacher's perspective over what they're having to do as well. And there's a disconnect between why a kid has to learn fractions in elementary school and like how that actually gets applied in the workforce, because Danielle you and I've worked with 3D printing and looking at decimal places, and so, for engineers when they're creating prototypes, if something's off by a fraction, you need to want to understand what that fraction is and two, understand like, if your material shrink by 1%, how do you change that to make sure that like, your materials don't shrink, and that your prototype is actually fitting when it's supposed to fit. And that's, and that's really the disconnect that we're trying to close with like how is your education applicable to a real world setting as well, and fitting that need that businesses are desperately crying out for because there are some people that will hire you for $60,000 on the floor in a manufacturing plant, and I'm pretty sure that's not the entry level of a teacher. So, like how do, we how do we make sure that kids can also get jobs, and stay in your communities, and be able to contribute to the economy. Once again, that's another like huge...
Danelle Brostrom 4:46 But this is such an important thing but it's a large task Drea. How are you, how are you getting started with this and how is the MiSTEM network finding a place where they can connect businesses and educators.
Drea Weiner 4:58 Yeah, so part of that is right now I'm doing a needs assessment of the whole region. So I covered TBAISD and I cover CHAREMISD. And so it's everything from looking at assessment scores, looking at what are the needs of the teachers have expressed to me, it's looking at the workforce data over what's projected to grow in the next 10 years. It's looking at, okay so if I'm going out and meeting with companies, what are the top five things coming up, like bubbling up through those conversations. Trying to figure out where these needs, and what's being discussed, and like how do those align. And it is a huge task, and I'm not in any way shape or form getting it right, right off the bat, but it's kind of one of those things that like how do I make sure that we're building in that iterative process of like, okay so, last year I've heard a lot of teachers needing like, I need help for supplies first because science is more expensive than an ELA project in your classroom. I need help. And I was just like, okay, I'll figure out how I can help you. Well, now that we're there, how do we, how do we move forward with like what is this cross curricular component look like, who's actually doing it in your classrooms, or who's, who's trying to do it but just needs help, who are the resources like yourself to reach out to, how do we get the workshops, like code.org and CS Fundamentals to the areas that need them. Like it's, a it's a lot and it requires a lot of people to bring to the table. It requires us to look at how we're currently using our resources, because my, my grant dollars and my dollars come from the state are meant to be generative and so, who else can I get to the table, in order to have an event or not even just an event, to have a program. And some of its, you know, here's how the ISD and I partner, because they are my fiscal. And here's how a business can come to the table and like, you know what I want an intern, and I'm like, great, which teachers have students that can actually, that are ready for an internship. Because that's part of it as well, the bringing people a table and let's talk about what these needs are saying.
Danelle Brostrom 7:01 And you said there's a whole network throughout Michigan of people just like you so if listeners aren't local to the TBAISD or CHAREM area, they, how would they find their MiSTEM person so they could learn more about this.
Drea Weiner 7:15 So I would go to michigan.gov/MiSTEM. You will be able to find your director there. And then part of its also reaching out to the other net, networks like REMC, like METS, the Math and Science Center Network etc.. Trying to figure out like, okay, so who are the, who are the people that I can connect with. I would start with the MiSTEM state site for, how do I connect with you.
Danelle Brostrom 7:39 The workforce wants these specific set of skills. Why is STEM the vehicle to get our kids there.
Drea Weiner 7:46 I would say, because it allows for a way that shows students how learning can be cross curricular and it shows how it can be applicable. So if you're working with, oh, I'm going to fall back on manufacturing because it's my experience. If a manufacturer for example wants an intern, they're going to go look for a student that has engineering experience, they're going to go look for a student that has solid science experience, they're going to look for a student whose teachers going to say, yeah, this kid shows up on time, apologizes when they don't show up on time, has the basic mathematics skills in order to push them forward, they asked for help, that was a huge one that's been coming up lately. You know, wide variety of my conversations of like, the kids, these kids know how to ask for help. And I would say STEM, like, a lot of the careers moving forward, are based in those four arenas. And like, more and more the workforce is working from home, you've got telecommuting going on. We actually have a really strong Computer Science Programmer base here in Traverse City that most people don't know about because they're all working from home. Yeah, if you're a homebody and you like to work from home and you've got solid, computer science skills like, people in New York City would rather hire someone from Traverse City than someone who lives in New York because it's a fraction of the price, and it's pretty competitive. Or go to the co-op if you do need to work with people. So that's another skill set that I don't think many teachers are aware of because most people don't realize, I won't say most people, I would say people who traditionally have to show up at a space for work, um, don't fully understand what it means to work from home. So if you're a kid that can't do an online course, like you have to have a lot of self regulation skills to be able to work from home. Because like, there are days where I work from home and it's great. I get to sit down and actually focus on what's going on. There are days where I'm just too distracted by how cute my cats are, and I have to go into the office because I will get nothing done. So that's, that's another example of the disconnect.
Larry Burden 9:48 You mentioned teachers a lot.
Drea Weiner 9:50 Yeah,
Larry Burden 9:50 And a concern that I have, or a question that I have is, is it teachers to MiSTEM, or is it District to MiSTEM? It seems like we're asking a teacher to do a lot,
Drea Weiner 10:04 Yeah,
Larry Burden 10:04 without support from the District, and it's such a large thing that we're asking them to do, I mean we're basically asking them to to look at their curriculum and figure out ways to fit, fit STEM in. It doesn't seem like that should necessarily be the teachers, I mean, it really doesn't seem like it should be the teacher's job or all on the teacher. It seems like the District should be supporting the teacher in their curriculum to allow for something as important as STEM to be embedded in what they do every day. It should just be there. How are we having those conversations.
Drea Weiner 10:39 Yeah, so I'm really, Yeah, I'm really glad that you brought that up because that is another layer of the MiSTEM network of looking at how do we talk with our district, districts. Because it should, in my opinion, it's got to be both. You have to have those gorilla educator teachers who, who are doing this regardless. Who's like, this look ,this work...
Larry Burden 10:56 Pushing it forward.
Drea Weiner 10:56 Pushing it forward, especially for an administrator who didn't teach that way. I've seen EVR I've been talking to people about CPM, Classroom Makers, over like a lot of that, students will show you their learning, how do you stop talking at the kids and help guide them through their learning. And that's an evolution from where some people were in the classroom you know maybe 20 years ago. And so, the, there's the flip side of that like okay, how does the district move forward with the research of what good learning looks like, and how do they support the teachers that way as well. And so that's a, that's another conversation and sometimes it's packing people up in the car and going to a school where they're doing that. And sometimes it's, you know, bringing people to the table or having business and education just sit at the same table and talk about what that means, and sometimes it's a district administrator, sometimes it's a principal, sometimes it's a teacher. So, yeah, that is a lot to ask teachers, and in no way shape or form do I expect every teacher to be like, yeah, let's go for this and like, if you don't have the support of your admin you're either one, not going to do it right, two not do it all, or three, do it but also have a really uphill battle.
Larry Burden 12:09 The resources end up, I mean we've seen it so many times in the classroom, a teacher has a great idea, or wants to pursue this, and the energy, the time, the resources, run out, or they move.
Drea Weiner 12:24 Yeah.
Larry Burden 12:24 So something happens at this one school and it's getting some traction but then the teacher gets moved to x school and then...
Drea Weiner 12:31 it's gone, because they take it to that school, yeah.
Larry Burden 12:34 And it's hard to get any real traction if it's not, kind of, site or District based. And I've just seen it too many times where they have that STEM classroom, and it's dedicated, and it's all good and then next year it's a closet.
Drea Weiner 12:49 Yeah, and I would say like from my vision, my personal one, I wouldn't say this is necessarily the whole MiSTEM networks vision, is that every teacher is comfortable with STEM. Like, long term, years down the road, like anyone is comfortable, like here's where, you know what we're going to do a literature and science lesson, and we're going to time together today, because I think everyone needs those skills, but until you have people from the administrative side of things and the teachers working together in that space, it's, it's going to be frustrating. And it's going, it's going to continue with teachers popping around and kids either getting it or not getting it depending on where that teacher, or helpful administrator is so.
Larry Burden 13:29 So there's a thing that's happening that maybe administrators and teachers should maybe get involved in. Isn't there like a workshop coming up.
Drea Weiner 13:35 Oh yeah, we've got our Elementary is Engineering Workshop, coming up pretty quickly here, which by the way you get a free Elementary is Engineering kit, if you decide to attend.
Larry Burden 13:46 Plug away.
Drea Weiner 13:47 Yeah.
Drea Weiner 13:48 So Heidi Skodeck is the one who's running the workshop for us, and she's been fantastic in helping me plan this, and it's been a long time coming. And so, here's a way that, here's a program that looks at how do you apply engineering in an elementary classroom. It's all tied to a story about a something related to other solar ovens, or building bridges or, I think designing circuits. So if you, if you do circuits with your kiddos, or you, or if you've designed solar ovens with your kiddos before just here's another way that you can do it that's also ties back to some of your standards and, you know, Heidi Skodeck your STEM person is on board for this, so like you know you're going to get some level of support in addition to, you're going to walk away with, you get to choose from one of those three kits to have that go back in your classroom. And I know, that you guys have the materials in your Elementary Materials Center to check out more kits, if you decide that you really like Elementary is Engineering.
Larry Burden 14:46 I think this is a great model for this. So we have the MiSTEM network partnering with our, a District administrator, working with district resources to support teachers.
Drea Weiner 14:56 And MiSTEM resources as well, yeah.
Larry Burden 14:58 Exactly.
Drea Weiner 14:58 And that's kind of, that's kind of what this is supposed to do, is like, the one kit that you get to take home back and keep your classroom, like that's technically coming out of my funds. There'll be a sticker on it but overall I don't care. There's more resources back in your Elementary Material Center that you guys can just check out, and that you don't have to worry about how am I going to replenish this kit once I use all the consumables because you have the Center for that.
Danelle Brostrom 15:18 I will say to, kudos for choosing that program because I think the Engineering is Elementary kit and their philosophy is phenomenal. It is top notch for kids, and I also think it's great for, you know you mentioned educators that have built solar ovens before and want something different, I think it's great for the educator who has no clue what they're doing and it's just excited about trying to help kids learn.
Larry Burden 15:39 Yeah.
Danelle Brostrom 15:39 It's very easy to get into.
Drea Weiner 15:41 Yeah. And honestly, so how I'm structured is that there's me and then I have an advisory council from the local level. And I have an education subcommittee of that and so Heidi sits on that board, Annette Cole that's on that committee, but then Shelly VanderMeulan, who used to work in your Elementary Material Center sit's on it. Michael George sits on it. We've got someone from CHAREM and the NMLC group that sits on it. And then we've got a teacher from Greenspire who sits on it too. So here's our education resource within the committee and like they're the ones who actually self identified that because they recognize that we're not doing a lot of engineering or science at the elementary level, and they're just like you know what we've used this before and it's a pretty easy entry toward, that's not scary for teachers to use.
Larry Burden 16:27 Give us the details for the Workshop.
Drea Weiner 16:28 OK, so the Workshop, you can register on our MiSTEM page for the local one. So my local link is MiSTEM.tbaisd.org. And TBA my fiscal so, what, I service many organizations, but they are my fiscal so the their name gets in the URL right now. And so you go under, Educators, there's a whole resource for you, for you guys that lists out any workshops that's going to be popping up in the area. And you would go, the registration link is there. If you are struggling with your administrator for sub costs, what you would be able to do though is that we actually have a Teacher Professional Learning Scholarship that you can apply for, and be like, oh, okay, great, you know what, you're willing to cover my sub costs, great, if you're not from within TCAPS and, like, then you're starting to get the argument over, well the drive to Northport, we don't know if we can, like pay your gas, or your mileage, or what happens if a snowstorm happens. You can also apply for that, for that scholarship as well and we'll pay your mileage and whatnot. And that's not just for this workshop, that's for any workshop or conference. If you want to go to MACUL let us know, we're going to do a carpool down there, I'm sure. But like, that, that's what that scholarship is for is to make sure that you guys can attend this workshop. The workshop itself is November 26. We need you to register as soon as possible. It will be first come first serve so I'll let you guys know when it is full. I will feed you so you don't walk away hungry that day. The rest is all on Heidi. Like she's, she's going to be the one leading you guys through it.
Danelle Brostrom 18:05 Now you also have many grants available right now.
Drea Weiner 18:08 Yeah,
Danelle Brostrom 18:08 Can you talk about those?
Drea Weiner 18:09 This is my second year as Regional Director, and I spent a lot of time listening to educators both out and about in the community and also in their classroom. Listening to the different consultants both from within TCAPS, and within TBA, and listening to my fellow MiSTEM Directors. So what came up from all of those conversations was, we don't have the resources. How can we just try this if, like I don't want to spend $1,000 or $500 on additional materials like out of my own pocket. So we created a mini grant system where like, okay you've got an a, an idea of how you can bring STEM into your classroom, great. For the first tier, which is, I just want to try something, $500, I just want to try. Great, come, apply, we'll review it to make sure that you've actually thought it through. This is not meant for, oh, we're out of crayons in our classroom, or we're, like it's not meant to replenish anything, it's meant to actually be for a project of some kind.
Larry Burden 19:09 I really think Ozobots are cool but I don't have a plan to do it.
Drea Weiner 19:12 Yeah, something like that, or hey I really want to start a Blockables in my classroom, or I want a set of iPads, but I don't know what, you would do in fact have to think about what this is through. Or, like, once again, if you want to go to the EIE workshop and you'll find another one that you really want but maybe you're a little worried about like, when you're going to get your stuff. You can apply for this grant and get a whole nother kit to try. It's really meant to be like, think about what you want to try in your classroom. Here's some funds for this. It is meant for materials, not for just like hiring in a consultant or something like that to come into your classroom. It is that for materials for you to do. But like, that's what that's for. And then we have a second tier, which is $1,000, where if you're working in a team environment that includes business or the community that's, that's a little bit more meaningful, that's showing like, here's how it's a little bit more cross curricular, this is how we're bringing in the workforce component. Like, for example, if you're, if you've decided to code.org like all their resources for code.org are free, but you, there are programmers here in town who are very much aware that computer science is not necessarily being taught in our schools and they want it to because their kids are here in these schools, and they're just like you know what let's use Microbits in the classroom. But Microbits are $15 a pop not including the alligator clips and how do we, who's going to teach the kids the Python. Well then you can bring in, you can purchase all the stuff for the micro bits, you can bring in the community partner to help the kids with what your programming is going to be, but also Microbits has a free curriculum that's either tied to code.org their own thing, Project Lead the Way, I think there's one more I'm not entirely sure. But anyways, there's at least those three that you can apply to your classroom, but you do need some seed funding to purchase the materials for your class. And that's what the thousand dollar one is for, because we really want people talking to each other. We really want people reaching out to each other over like, what does this look like. And so those applications, which also can be found on our website, are due, November 27th, with the goal to have them announced in December, so you can do this right after the school, no the turn of the year, and give us your feedback and your evaluations before the end of the school year so you're not losing your mind. So that's, that's what the mini grants are for. And I...
Larry Burden 21:34 You have all the resources.
Drea Weiner 21:36 Not all of them but I'm trying, I'm trying pretty hard. Yeah, and so, and that came out of, that idea came out of actually another region, another MiSTEM region in the state was doing it, and they didn't reach 100% saturation, but it allowed for certain schools who typically either get forgotten or lost to explore how to do STEM in their classrooms. And once again, I'm not prescribing what you do, you do have to think it through, you do have to tie it to your standards, you do. And if you need help reaching out to a community member I've got people who can help you with that. There's that part as well, because I know, reaching out to community members can be scary. You still have to have a, have at least thought it through. Because if you give me an application that it looks like you're just purchasing classroom materials and that's it, I'm going to tell you no on that one, so.
Danelle Brostrom 22:25 So what do you hope for in terms of the future of this program?
Drea Weiner 22:28 Oh my gosh, so I hope for, oh, gosh,
Larry Burden 22:32 World domination?
Drea Weiner 22:33 World domination in STEM! Um, what I'm really hoping for is that teachers feel empowered by, well by their administrators, by the state, by community partners to try things out in their classroom, and to not feel the fear of how does this tie back into what I'm doing. Like you, you have people you can go out and ask questions to. I'm hoping that kids are thinking, like, maybe you ask the kids what they want to do. We want to work on an erosion project, or we want to go to the bay and count like how many birds have died from whatever bird flu is going on. Like, you know, how do you bring in the student voice to this. How do you have a full supportive community coming in saying this is how, these are our issues, please kids come solve this, because I think that's another component, or how do we expose kids to these type of careers that no one knows are going to be out there in 20 years.
Larry Burden 23:31 It seems like, you know, I think STEM gets labeled or viewed sometimes as coding.
Drea Weiner 23:36 Yeah,
Larry Burden 23:37 It's coding, you know, and so...
Drea Weiner 23:38 or it's FIRST Robotics and exclusively FIRST Robotics.
Larry Burden 23:41 Exactly whereas, whereas really it's more about problem solving, it's taking, its taking learning and making it applicable.
Drea Weiner 23:47 If you're talking about food chains, okay, let's talk about the invasive species that are found out in our bay. Let's talk about like, why is it important for the micro plastics, that from the 3D printers, how do we make sure that those do not wind up in our food chain and wind up in the fish that we also eat when we go fishin'. You know, how does that affect us? And, you know, we talk about food chains, we talk about food webs, we talk about, you know pollution on some level, what does that actually mean? That's what it's all about.
Larry Burden 24:17 It's really, it's just good practice, it's good educational practice.
Drea Weiner 24:20 Yeah.
Larry Burden 24:21 We just have to maybe take that one, one extra step, that one courageous step away from what's, what's built into the curriculum we're getting from wherever we're getting our curriculum from, and going okay how can this be applied to something that our students care about.
Drea Weiner 24:40 Yeah.
Danelle Brostrom 24:41 And I love the State of Michigan is saying that this is valuable. They're, they're putting money behind it, they're not just giving us some other mandate that we have to do. They're saying this is important and we're going to give you people that will help guide you and make this happen, so it's fortunate.
Drea Weiner 24:53 Yeah, Yeah. And I would also say that our Legis., a lot of my work is Legislator based. That's where some of my requirements come from, which a lot of those are listening to the businesses. And so I'm someone where if something doesn't make sense, a teacher can be like, Drea, here's my concern, this is what's popping up, and if it's something that is systemic, because let's face it, a lot of these issues are systemic, I get to go down to Lansing and advocate for what's going on. And the Executive Director of the program. Megan Schrauben, and she's the one who, like meets with the governor's office saying, okay here's where we're struggling with in STEM education, and you really need to listen to this. So that's, that's another piece of what I do like I don't get to spend the days in the classrooms with the kiddos and see like them doing it every day, most days. But I at least get to like take those stories with me and, and advocate.
Larry Burden 25:48 So, Tech Tool of the Week!
Techtool of the Week 25:52 Tech Tool of the Week, I want to talk about the STEM in Literature Project. Drea, Would you like to tell us a little bit about that.
Drea Weiner 25:57 Oh sure, I'm gonna have to let everyone know that my hat is shifting here a little bit I'm not just the MiSTEM Regional Director for us. I'm also one of the REMC RITS members for us. And this,
Larry Burden 26:11 I just want to stop really quick. We're going to have an acronym, like list, because you've thrown about seven of them out and they usually stop and go, and what does that mean, but we're just gonna let this go.
Drea Weiner 26:24 Once again I work with Legislators so I like it doesn't, I have now like become so accustomed to them I don't even realize it using them anymore.
Danelle Brostrom 26:32 That's okay.
Drea Weiner 26:33 Yeah, SEL, that was a new one I had to teach one of my co workers this week it was great social emotional learning. All right. Yeah,
Danelle Brostrom 26:40 STEM in Literature Project, tell us.
Drea Weiner 26:42 Promoting STEM through Literature Project. Okay, so this came out of the REMC Classroom Makers Project. And I think the thought was a, first of all this, I do not own this project, one, it is a REMC project, and two, Judy Bowling, and Kerry Giuliano are the wonderful, masterful ladies throughout the state who came up with this project and have been promoting it at every single ed tech conferences this summer. And this year, they are doing full day workshops throughout the state of how do you apply this. Anyways, taking another step back, is that this came from the Classroom Makers Project where they're using all that Make philosophy in the classroom, and how do you, how do you give students time to actually ask questions and inquire, and through their own space by Making great. Some of the things that people were running into, teachers were running into throughout the state were like, that's great how does this tie in to my standards. That's great. We've got a third grade reading bill coming down the pipeline, we don't have time for this. Okay, well maybe it fits, you know, on the day before Thanksgiving where all the kids are squirrely but you know, I don't really see this as something that I can continuously have in my classroom. And so looking at the third grade reading bill, the feedback from the teachers, and like how does this tie into my classroom, how do I get my administrators on board. Those two wonderful ladies, Kerry and Judy, they actually went and like, okay let's go look at which books that are, for the most part, based on real people, and that have design thinking, and making in their story. And so they picked out all of these books, many of them are by people of color, or marginalized voices, or like people who suffer from autism. And, like, here are these stories that they also have created like a pseudo, like, I don't know if they're called key cards or it's like a pseudo lesson plan Danelle help me out a little.
Danelle Brostrom 28:35 Yeah there's a lesson plan, and there's sample questions that you can use. There's also simple activities that you can connect with the maker kits that are waiting your MC for you to be checked out. Or if you read the book yourself you might come up with three other ideas on how you can use making to connect these. They're phenomenal books and the work that those ladies have done is top notch.
Drea Weiner 28:54 Yeah, and they're free. So we have those books at REMC for you to check out. We have the list of materials that require, that go along with the lesson plans. Okay, so here we have these free materials for you to check out and actually go back and apply it in your classroom, we also, like they're K-12. I sat down with a secondary English consultant over at TBA, and I was like hey, so these are picture books, and usually when I think about picture books it's for elementary school but they're telling me this is K-12, this is not
Larry Burden 29:23 You're in a safe place here.
Drea Weiner 29:23 This is not my area of expertise, and then like I shared with her the website. I shared with her, here's a lesson plan, one of the lesson plans tied to one of the books. She immediately tied three different standards for sixth grade into the lesson plan. And so, that's kind of one of the things to, where if you guys are confused about how do I fit this in, like what does this look like in my classroom, like this is meant to be K-12 and like there are people here within TCAPS, there's here, there's people within TBA who are just like, let me, let me help you out.
Danelle Brostrom 29:56 Um, but go to the website it's bit.ly/pstlmaker. And you can see the resources that are available
Larry Burden 30:03 My tagline, I've got this. And of course I have to throw the A in there because I love STEAM. Yeah, STEAM is Lit. No? Yeah, no? Okay, moving on.
Danelle Brostrom 30:12 Rolling the eyes just a little Larry.
Larry Burden 30:14 Tutorials and updates, I just wanted to throw out, um, you shared with me yesterday. Two days ago, your DigCit for Parents.
Danelle Brostrom 30:22 Oh yeah,
Larry Burden 30:23 Which I thought was awesome,
Danelle Brostrom 30:25 and Stephie, I didn't do it on my own.
Larry Burden 30:28 Well you shared it on your own.
Danelle Brostrom 30:29 I had to give credit.
Larry Burden 30:30 But the presentation is great, there's so much in there, and I have a feeling we're going to be doing a lot with that in the upcoming weeks because I think it's really important to be communicating some of those resources with our parents. It's just, it's just too important. In closing, follow us on Facebook and Twitter @TCAPSLoop
Danelle Brostrom 30:48 @brostromda
Drea Weiner 30:49 @dreaweiner
Larry Burden 30:49 Subscribe to the podcast on Podbean, iTunes, Stitcher, Tune-in, Downcast, Overcast, the Google Play Store or wherever else you get your ear candy. Leave review, we love the feedback. Thanks for listening and inspiring.
Danelle Brostrom 31:03 Yes. This is why I love you.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai

EdTech Loop Ep. 96: EdTech Inspiration

It's early November here in Northern Michigan but it already feels like mid December, possibly February, and we're trying to avoid early onset cabin fever, so we look to Danelle and Stephie to provide some much needed "Ed-Tech Inspiration," to get through the bleak early winter.
Show Transcript:
Danelle Brostrom 0:00 Obviously it's smarter than I am.
Larry Burden 0:08 Where's this come from
Danelle Brostrom 0:08 because you have to edit out all the stupid things that we say,
Stephie Luyt 0:11 Now the pressures on.
Larry Burden 0:13 gotta delete that
Stephie Luyt 0:14 You're like Botox.
Larry Burden 0:21 It's Episode 96 of the EdTech Loop podcast. My name is Larry Burden and she drank a bit too much of the apocalyptic Kool Aid after binging 16 straight hours of Black Mirror its Danelle Brostrom. And here to reel our Ed tech hero back from the dark side, it's Stephie Luyt. To coax Danelle back from the edge, this week's moment of zen trends hopeful.
Moment of Zen 0:44 I hope that in this year to come you make mistakes. Because if you are making mistakes, then you are making new things, trying new things, learning, living, pushing yourself, changing yourself, changing your world, you're doing things you've never done before. And more importantly, you're doing something.
Larry Burden 1:06 After checking the unseasonably cold hourly forecast our decision was made to stay in, and partake in this week's meat of the show: Ed Tech Inspiration. It's Northern Michigan here, it's early November, it already feels like mid December, possibly February, and we're trying to not get into that early kind of hunker down mood. So we needed to find a little inspiration today. It was a great idea that Danelle had yesterday, as far as coming up with a topic for this podcast. So we all have lists, let's just jump right into this.
Danelle Brostrom 1:43 I can start. My first favorite thing that I love right now, Common Sense Media had an amazing blog post on ISTE. It was written by Liz Cline who's their VP of Education Programs, and her idea is to, "Pause for People." We talk a lot about digital lives and how to find balance with your media and real life, and I think this idea of pausing for people is beautiful, and it's simple, and it's a great thing to keep in mind. So when you're in real life and someone is talking to you, pause what you're doing and privilege that human standing in front of you over what's on your screen.
And she says this, "I'm no tech hater. I strongly believe that technology does help connect us with people in meaningful ways, and it should be used for powerful learning in the classroom. But even with all that potential the face to face interactions that you could be having. You should be having, starting now."
I love that idea of pausing for people, and I'm really trying to do that when I'm in meetings when I'm, when somebody comes in and interupts me at my desk either turning around for my screen or closing my screen and just pausing for people. It's a great thing to talk about with kids in the classroom to.
Stephie Luyt 2:45 That's a beautiful way to say that whole idea of a balance between how we use tech and how we, how we function IRL. It's a really good way to think about it. There's nothing more valuable than pausing for someone, and having that conversation.
Larry Burden 3:02 I love that you're making an active step to do that. Sometimes we want to do that but we still have our device up, or we have our device open and it's amazing how our eyes just naturally fall back down into it. David Noller, the TechNollerGist, mentioned that when he's using devices in his class they're open, as soon as they're not being used, he tells them, close the device, close the lid. It's easy to get distracted by the device. So we need to be probably very, very deliberate in what we do to make sure that we are pausing for people.
Danelle Brostrom 3:36 And tell people around you that this is something that you're trying to do too because I want you to check me on it. If we're in a meeting together and you see me not pausing, remind me of that. My kids have been checking me on it. My four year old will say, and I've got her saying this, I told her what to say so it's really funny when she says it, but she'll say, "daddy, what's more important right now me or your phone?" and he's like, okay, that is a kick in the teeth, I'm putting this phone down. You are more important to me always. But I think that's a good, you know, pausing for people, we need to make sure we're doing that.
Stephie Luyt 4:05 I also feel like in meetings and in just events in general I feel like people are trying to be more mindful about that. I feel like there was a time where it was, hey great look at how busy you are, I'm going to check these four different things, and I'm going to have this open, and I'm going to be looking at this device, and, and that was almost a good thing. But I feel like that pendulum has swung a little bit and we're seeing more, I'm seeing more active examples in adults of trying to model that balance because we can't multitask in the way that we think we can. I 100% can't, and I think the research proves most people can't.
Larry Burden 4:39 I can almost guarantee you guys do it when you go into a meeting. I take a look at the table and see how many people have their phone on the table. And over the past year I've noticed, less.
Stephie Luyt 4:51 I agree.
Larry Burden 4:52 Whereas so that trend that you're talking about, I think is taking hold. I think people are recognizing that the multitasking skill, isn't really a skill.
Danelle Brostrom 5:01 I agree, it makes my heart happy.
Stephie Luyt 5:03 My first favorite thing is, is pretty nerdy, but I've been doing a lot of looking into evidence based practice in libraries which comes out of the healthcare field
Larry Burden 5:13 I'm not going next.
Danelle Brostrom 5:14 I like this one already.
Stephie Luyt 5:15 The part I wanted to highlight is you can collect subjective data, as well as objective data. And the piece in subjective data that is meaningful to me is really that idea of a narrative and the storytelling. It's falls under the "anec-data." So anecdotal data. And it's telling the story about the connections. It can be about anything, but the something I'm thinking about is the number of our schools are focused heavily on relationship building and connections. And they are always doing that but for some it's like the top focus this year. And just trying to quantify for lack of a better word, how some of those connections get made with individual students or staff members in the library, and how valuable that is for way down the road, even. I just read a report last night, it was from NPR, and it was some research that had been done that, if a student even has one positive connection with an adult, it can help buffer them against, really some of the things that come up on like the ACES Survey, our those childhood trauma experiences. And like, those meaningful connections, and even what seems like a small interaction reaps benefits down the road. And so my point here is just saying that having anec-data to show those connections, it's very valuable. Like, that is time well spent. And it's kind of the same idea that Danelle is talking about in terms of making connections. Like, those, those connections are meaningful, and they can be very powerful for our kiddos. So, anec-data is my one of my favorite things.
Larry Burden 6:53 At the start of last year, our opening PD for the school year. We focused on something called the ISSN, the Intense Student Support Network. And I don't know if this happened over at Central High School, but I know at West Senior High, all the people that attended that PD wrote down something that they were going to do for students, be mindful of doing for students that year. And we ended up having, documenting the full list of things. And as far as something that would create a positive environment and would be what, what, what's the term again?
Stephie Luyt 7:25 anec-data
Larry Burden 7:26 Anec-data, that was, you know, I look at it because it was a spreadsheet of anec-data, and it was, it was very inspiring. We actually made a video out of it with the running, the running comments. "I want to make a kid, one students smile today," I'm going to say hi to a student everyday," "I'm going to try to imagine, trying to focus on their needs over mine." And we just it was all, just so many great comments from our educators, and it was nice that they had a moment to reflect. Because sometimes it's hard to reflect on that anec-data and recognize how important it is because you're wrapped up in so many other things. It's nice that, that became a focus.
Danelle Brostrom 8:03 Everything we should be doing. Kids, if they don't have that they can't learn. And that, those are the kinds of things we, we need to be doing every day.
Larry Burden 8:10 I'm not nearly as cool as that.
Danelle Brostrom 8:12 What'cha got Larry.
Larry Burden 8:14 The thing that I'm inspired about or that's inspiring me is the continued focus on STEAM and STEAM education. I love the A. I so love of the A. You know, we're all familiar with, with STEM, science, technology, engineering, and math. Throw the arts in there. Some of the comments that I ran across were, "It removes limitations and replaces them with wonder, critique, inquiry and innovation." The four C's, the 21st century skills, are all based, kind of in that artistic mindset, the creative mindset, collaboration creativity, critical thinking, and communication. Art is the tool to get those things done. So it's kind of like that connective tissue. It's like if STEM is the muscles and the, the skeletal structure. The A is the tendon, it's the ligament. It's all connecting it together, and I think that that's always been kind of a separate thing. You know, we always look at it any of our schools, especially high schools, the Arts Wing, it's kind of over there, it's those kids, you know, the artsy kids. And later on in life, when we're in business, or in any other field, we always go for it we really wish we had that creative person to kind of, not only bring some visual flair, but the viewpoint, the value of the viewpoint of, of a Creative, to look at a problem, and do that problem solving, from an outside perspective, I think is really what the A, brings to STEM is that, that creative problem solving.
Stephie Luyt 9:46 The jobs, and the challenges, and the fields that aren't even created yet, like, the creative problem solvers of the world are going to be able to make the future happen. That is so, such a valuable perspective.
Larry Burden 9:59 Next,
Danelle Brostrom 9:59 Next, the next thing that I am super inspired by are the Michigan Social Studies Standards.
Stephie Luyt 10:05 Interesting.
Danelle Brostrom 10:06 I know, right. You would never thought that one would have been on my list. No, they just were approved in January 2019 and it was after.
Larry Burden 10:13 You just had a meeting on this.
Danelle Brostrom 10:13 I did that's why it's kind of in my, in the forefront of my brain right now. They were approved after this big five year discussion and it became political as these things often do, but the final draft is the part that I love. It has this heavy focus on inquiry, and the entire first few pages of the Standards introduction talks all about how social studies should be taught. And how different it is from how we used to teach it. So it's heavy into inquiry and that should be the primary form of instruction for social studies. And that students and then they put, and teachers, kind of in parentheses, like as a second thought, like, oh yeah teachers should help too. But mostly the students should be crafting these investigative questions that matter. That teachers should provide and help students develop tangible opportunities to take informed action. And I just love this focus on inquiry. If we do true inquiry, then I think we can come, we can knock out like 95% of those ISTE Standards that we work so hard on.
Stephie Luyt 11:07 And ASL.
Danelle Brostrom 11:08 Right? It's, it's beautiful. I think Trevor Mackenzie's work on incredible become important as we unpack with the shift and kind of how, how this changes our teaching. He wrote a series of books, one is called, "Dive Into Inquiry," that I'm in the middle of right now. But he has another book called, "Inquiry Mindset," that's more K-7 focused. This one is more K-12 focused. But even just looking at his companion website, there are a ton of resources that, how to take students from, here's what inquiry is, which is wouldn't be very structured into this like free inquiry work students are actually solving problems that they care about. And I just, I love that scaffolding, and there's, there's even a section that I was thinking about he calls, "Teacher Librarians Your Inquiry Superhero." That they're the ones who are really helping you understand and empower within this learning idea. It's just, it's beautiful. I'm excited to see how inquiry into the social studies standards really changes the way we teach and how it starts to excite kids. This is a topic I'm passionate about, social studies instruction, and I'm excited to see how we can make kids passionate about this too.
Stephie Luyt 12:15 And let them follow what they're curious about reminds me a little bit of Genius Hour. It's that same following the, the area that you're passionate about, and, and seeing kids in that world, it's pretty empowering.
Larry Burden 12:29 The fact that this is actually in the standard is great. I think we have educators that do this, that focus on this. Our superintendent was just in, was mentioning in a board meeting recently that he was in a classroom where he was observing a teacher do exactly this. I think she's been doing it for years. The fact that it's a standard shows was me, or tells me that we're recognizing that we are we are no longer the gatekeepers of knowledge, and that our job really is to spark curiosity and inquiry. And the fact that it's a fundamental shift now it's not just something we're talking about it's actually embedded in the standards. We're not talking about content. We're talking about,
Danelle Brostrom 13:13 Process
Larry Burden 13:14 Process. That is a foundational shift in how we're educating and how we're expected to be educating.
Danelle Brostrom 13:21 It's amazing to see that in our standard.
Larry Burden 13:23 Two years ago we were frustrated that we had been talking about this. And it wasn't happening fast enough, and now...
Danelle Brostrom 13:30 It's there, and I would definitely encourage people to go to Trevor Mackenzie's website because there are a lot of resources on how to start inquiry. One of the things that he shares, and it's kind of fantastic. He took the UN Sustainable Development Goals and made this, I guess it's a slideshow, and each of the squares are interactive. So you click on the one that talks about poverty, or you click on the one that talks about access to clean water, and it shows you this little kid friendly video that would be a great starter for inquiry into that topic. Response, it's real world, it's inquiry, it's going to be great for kids and teachers.
Stephie Luyt 14:06 My next thing is everything over at TADL. I spent yesterday there. Thanks to TADL for hosting our PD. We had our K-12 library staff there for the morning and they were gracious enough to provide the meeting space. And just being reminded again, I spend a lot of time at TADL, but we have such a gem there of resources, as well as a community space. And the number of innovative programs and opportunities to our, for our community. Every time I'm there there's something else that I think, oh my gosh they're doing this. You know you can borrow a theremin, if you want to do that.
Larry Burden 14:44 Because why wouldn't you.
Stephie Luyt 14:44 It's not everyday, right? Besides the theremin lots of other gear for any kind of audio visual project that you might have. You know, it's just a beautiful community space, and I actually looped back over to the library at the end of the day, my son had robotics, so I started the day there early and then was there at the end of the day and saw some of the same teens that had been there all day, taking part in all of what's there for teens, you know. And I thought what a great space, you know, being there, so much yesterday, just saw kind of the, the evolution of the day. And like, how people are using this. It's just, it's just awesome, and I just wanted to thank them for the experience being there, but also just say that's one of my favorite things currently.
Danelle Brostrom 15:25 I would agree with you totally. Yesterday I was there as well picking up some MELCAT resources that I had ordered online and shipped right to my local library. And I walked in and
Larry Burden 15:35 Shout out to MELCAT.
Danelle Brostrom 15:36 I know, right? My kid was there and she was looking for some things. And that, that idea of connections with people, they are just so wonderful about talking to a child at their level, finding out what they're interested in, helping them find books. We're first taken the the card catalogs, they can look it up. And then helping them find that book on the shelf. And then, offering this additional series that they might be interested in. Like, they know their stuff, and they know how to get kids excited by reading.
Stephie Luyt 16:02 Absolutely. They're a great partner. One thing that I noticed yesterday that then looped around today, I, there's a sign in the, in the teen section and it lists all the dewey numbers for topics that you might not want to ask about. So, just think of a topic that as a kiddo you might be nervous to ask about, you know? And then as I was driving here today there was a story on the news about a person who was, you know what, growing up had some, some things that they were figuring out and spending a lot of time in the library and trying to learn about some of these issues but not wanting to ask questions, and so kind of fumbling their way through how to find the right materials. And I thought what a great thing that they're posting some information like, you might not want to ask but here's some places to start your inquiry.
Larry Burden 16:48 Is ours a diamond in the rough?
Danelle Brostrom 16:50 We are really fortunate for all we have in our library for the size of our community. We have just a really innovative, forward thinking staff over there. I mean, there are a lot of fantastic libraries, but I think we're just, we're extra fortunate and what we have in the size of our town.
Larry Burden 17:08 I was going to kind of jump off my STEAM conversation and actually go into one of the ISTE Standards. I really liked the Design Thinking Standard. So, students use a variety of technologies within a design process to identify and solve problems by creating new, useful or imaginative solutions. Kind of piggybacking off of what I was saying before. It's somewhat similar, but again it's taking a lot, maybe oftentimes several problems and looking at them as a whole, and then getting our students to, instead of focusing on the small point also look at the bigger picture and teaching some of those design skills and recognizing the usefulness of those design skills and design thinking is, is very important. You know, Stephie, you had commented on maybe not liking the word standard. But really, maybe instead of standard, maybe a different word would be design. Because really that's what it is. They're taking the social studies curriculum, or the social studies standards and they're actually looking at social studies design, and how best can we create a system that will educate our students in the social studies field, most efficiently and most productively. It's a standard, yes, but really it's a design, and I think that's really something that is exciting that you see that pop up, obviously in the ISTE standards as something that's really important. Moving it along.
Danelle Brostrom 18:34 I only have one more thing and it's eSports. Wow, last week's pod was amazing. Um, I'm reading, "The New Childhood, Raising Kids to Thrive in a Connected World," by Jordan Shapiro. I don't agree with everything in the book but he does lay out a lot of things that kids can learn through gaming. It's super interesting, reminds me a lot of the Jane McGonigal book, the "Reality is Broken." She talked about why gaming makes us better. And I think I really got that sense last week talking to the guys. That the things that they're doing with eSports, and the MiHSEF is so much more than just having kids on video games. It's all of these essential skills that they're learning through video gaming, and it was so cool. So that's another thing that I love.
Larry Burden 19:16 One of the neat things about eSports is the fact that you can get all these kids together in a community. It's an online community, but it's a constructive, controlled online community. One of the things that a lot of parents, including myself, would have wished for, for my kids is neighborhood time. Where they can go outside, and explore, and play and find their friends and do whatever. It's this, "come back at five," that doesn't exist. It just does not exist because oftentimes schedules. They're here, they're there, a lot of our houses are far enough apart where the distance isn't really workable. Online is actually a place where that can happen, where you can get groups of kids together in a constructive, fun place. When we were out playing in the yard, in somebody's yard, it's not like we were being constructive. I mean we were because we're learning so many of those skills that would be learned through eSports. Similar, similar topics, similar skill sets, similar mindset. It's just the playing field has changed from the yard, which we can't, we can't seem to recreate anymore, to an online yard, which is available.
Danelle Brostrom 20:33 Did you read the Jordan Shapiro book?
Larry Burden 20:35 I did not.
Danelle Brostrom 20:35 That is exactly what he talks about. He goes through things like, that kids would have normally learned in the sandbox, and this is what they learned in the online sandbox, and it's the same thing. It's just in this online community versus this face to face community. And yes, you need balance, but they're also learning these things online. You need to read it, it's exactly what you're talking about.
Larry Burden 20:52 We've talked about this before, we're not leaving our students, or our kids at the playground and walking away. The eSports environment, creates a controlled environment. So suddenly that sandbox is being monitored. Instead of, we're just throwing them out there and, you know, who knows what's happening. There's adult moderation in that environment, which I think is really important.
Stephie Luyt 21:16 And adult modeling even like, yeah,
Larry Burden 21:19 We hope.
Stephie Luyt 21:19 Yeah. My next one is specific to this time of year but the, the Youth Media Awards. So the Children's Literature Awards will be announced in January, and so this time of year is such fun because there's such a buzz about what books might it be, and lists coming out, and people making predictions. And what happens for me as the immense addition to my reading list that I got this time of year, because it's like, oh, this one, this one, this one, this one, oh yes okay. So I just love the, the discussions happening around books and the, the buzz around books, and the excitement, and the discussions that are happening. And I'm headed to a conference next week and they'll be that times 1000 so this is it fun time.
Danelle Brostrom 22:03 So the stack next to your bed of the books you need to read...
Stephie Luyt 22:06 unsafe.
Larry Burden 22:08 I trying to think of your Twitter stack. Because I know, you know, after we had we mentioned Colby Sharp on a few pods and that obviously triggered an algorithm on Twitter at some point in time because we @ him a few times. And suddenly, I'm pretty up on all the new books and things that are coming out because that is my Twitter feed and I'm thinking, what is yours like? Is it just, just book, after book, after book?
Larry Burden 22:28 You've got to read this, you've got to read this, You've got to...
Stephie Luyt 22:28 Pretty much
Stephie Luyt 22:32 It's nerve wracking.
Larry Burden 22:32 I was just going to say, it's got to be overwhelming. I'm stressed just looking your mine and
Stephie Luyt 22:35 This is a fun time. Yeah.
Larry Burden 22:36 For sure.
Larry Burden 22:37 Stephie, do you have anything else?
Danelle Brostrom 22:37 I'm out.
Stephie Luyt 22:38 When you mentioned Colby Sharp, the one book that he, one of the books he talked about
Larry Burden 22:43 This year's Liz Kolb it would seem.
Danelle Brostrom 22:45 Colby Sharp
Stephie Luyt 22:46 He mentioned that he was reading "Atomic Habits." And then it popped up for a couple people, and so I just started it. So I can't say much about it but I am really encouraged by, it's an interesting look at sort of those small things, those small changes that you make. Nothing, in terms of a huge new philosophy, but I think it, it's really interesting, and if it gives me insight into how Colby Sharp reads 1000 books a year and then that can even translate for me to read a quarter of that number that would be a huge win for this book to help me do that. So get through that big list.
Larry Burden 23:25 I guess for there. TechTool of the Week.
Techtool of the Week 23:31 I want to share the, "Use Tech for Good," site. It's ustech4good.com, and they challenge youth and adults to find and create the good online. Replacing the fear with positive deliberate and constructive ways youth and adults can work together with technology. It is beautiful, and inspirational, and there's a ton of positive examples of youth in tech, and it's definitely my tech tool of the week.
Larry Burden 23:55 This is good stuff. Tutorials and Updates. TechNollerGist shockingly has a new tutorial, "Intro to Google Drive." I think there's a cottage industry on Google tutorials. Because Google updates and changes so many things so often, for the good 90% of the time. So, if you think you know Google Drive you probably don't, watch the tutorial, "Intro to Google Drive," by the TechNollerGist. Hey, I would ask for our listeners, leave a rating on iTunes and include your favorite trends in education in, in the review so it's a great way for us, A. to get reviews, so please leave a review, but also a great way to communicate with us on what you think is really cool in education right now. So leave a review and a trend. In closing, follow us on Facebook and Twitter @tcapsloop,
Danelle Brostrom 24:44 @brostromda,
Stephie Luyt 24:46 @StephiLuyt
Larry Burden 24:47 And get all the books. Subscribe to the podcast on podbean, iTunes, Stitcher and tune-in, downcast overcast, the Google Play Store, Spotify and wherever else you get your ear candy. Leave review, we love the feedback. Thanks for listening, and inspiring.
Danelle Brostrom 25:04 Jeez Larry, I wasn't gonna Black Mirror it.

EdTech Loop Ep. 95 - The Rise of eSports

Wow! Danelle and I were so thankful to have Ted Kidd and Dylan Chapman join us for this is a jam packed eSports episode of the EdTech Loop Podcast. If you are at all curious about the eSports phenomenon this is a must listen as our guests break down almost any aspect you could think of concern the sport. As the TechNollerGist would say, "Play a game today, it's good for you."
 
Full Show Transcript:
Dylan Chapman 0:00 Yeah, I've got you loud and clear here.
Danelle Brostrom 0:07 We lost Dylan
Ted Kidd 0:08 He's frozen
Danelle Brostrom 0:09 I know. Awe,
Dylan Chapman 0:10 Hi, sorry about that. I got myself kicked out I think.
Danelle Brostrom 0:13 Larry. Are you ready?
Larry Burden 0:15 We are ready.
Larry Burden 0:21 It's Episode 95 of the EdTech Loop podcast. My name is Larry Burden and she'll choose Yoshi over Mario every time. It's Danelle Brostrom. For the first time ever on The EdTech Loop podcast we are joined remotely by the heroes of Michigan High School eSports, Dylan Chapman and Ted Kidd. Before they joined us in our endless quest to level up, we've already discovered this week's Moment of Zen.
Moment of Zen 0:47 Time passes, people move, like a rivers flow it never ends, a childish mind will turn to noble ambition.
Larry Burden 0:58 Danelle has taken over the cooking duties and has barred me from the kitchen so she could remotely prepare this week's meat of the show. The Rise of Esports.
Danelle Brostrom 1:19 So Ted, can you give us a little introduction on who you are?
Ted Kidd 1:22 Ted Kidd work at Pinckney Community Schools. I'm the Director of Technology Operations and which is kind of a glorified network janitor job.
Danelle Brostrom 1:31 And Dylan?
Dylan Chapman 1:32 I'm a high school social studies teacher at Grass Lake High School.
Danelle Brostrom 1:35 Tell me what is eSports?
Dylan Chapman 1:37 eSport s is competitive online video game play. It's a multi-billion dollar industry, and it's being played at everywhere from the high school, even middle school level, all the way up to collegiate, and professional play.
Danelle Brostrom 1:50 How long have eSports been going on here in Michigan?
Ted Kidd 1:52 At the high school level it's, this is kind of the fourth year. In our experience we've seen some competitive tournaments happen at Lawrence Technical University, they started that about three years ago, and then just recently, Dylan, myself and a few others in the state of Michigan have formed a organization called MiHSEF or Michigan High School eSports Federation, to allow all high school eSports programs to compete against each other for free.
Danelle Brostrom 2:24 Nice. What kind of benefits are the kids getting from eSports? Like how, how are you selling this to families because I guarantee you there's probably a lot of moms that are like, no that's not a real thing honey, go back to doing what you were doing before.
Dylan Chapman 2:34 Some of the things that are like life skills or lessons that students learn are things like, communication, teamwork, sportsmanship. In a lot of ways, it's like traditional sports and then a lot of other ways it's not. But they learn a lot of the skills that they would on the football field, but in a just a different environment. So some things that are different that I think that they learn, are things like self learning. They're definitely motivated internally, like by themselves to push themselves further. The players participate as coaches a lot more than, than traditional sports and that gives the students a sense of leadership and control.
Ted Kidd 3:12 The thing about eSports versus traditional sports, because you kind of mentioned as well, is the esports can be played all year round. So kids don't just play for, you know, a six week period and then leave. Some of them will play all year round. So they really get a sense of community when they enter an eSports program.
Dylan Chapman 3:34 As far as communities that are in doubt that eSports is something to participate in or worthwhile. I would just point to the major professional competitions that have been happening. Just recently, the Fortnite competition where a 16 year old took home the biggest prize purse in professional sports history of $3 million. To say that eSports is just kind of a, either a flash in the pan, or something that shouldn't be taken seriously, I would point to those major competitions, such as the League of Legends competitions that sell out arenas like Little Caesars Arena, Madison Square Garden, week after week. People are all in. If people don't know yet, they're just kind of out of the loop and they'll soon recognize that eSports is probably here to stay and it's going to take a bigger and bigger role, in the sports field. This kind of as a side note, the benefits of being a collegiate eSports player is it's not governed by the NCAA is governed by a different organization called NAC, and they had specifically written the rules that they don't have the amateurism standard where they can make, they can only make less than $1 on their likeness. So a big part of eSports revenue for individuals is their streaming and their online, like, influencer presence. So they're allowed to make all that money. They're allowed to play professionally, and they're also allowed to get scholarships to go to school at the same time.
Danelle Brostrom 4:59 That's amazing to me that a 16 year old could bring home a prize like that, and now we're selling out arenas like that for, for gaming. Did you ever see this, did you visualize this happening someday?
Dylan Chapman 5:12 I think eSports has gone through a couple generations of evolution. You could probably take it back to the days of Madden, and those kind of competitions. Super Smash Brothers, which is still a game that's played, was one of those original, kind of big major tournament play games. Those are still being played all around the country and including in places like Michigan where the prizes can get up there into the thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars depending on the size of the contest.
Ted Kidd 5:40 So Dylan, really, you can date this back to, you know, in the day of Pac Man, and Miss Pac Man where...
Dylan Chapman 5:46 Oh yeah,
Ted Kidd 5:47 kids would come together and have these little mini tournaments at the local arcade to see who's the best. This is basically dated back to, to a place where video games have started. You know, Calicovision and Atari, and all those game consoles lended themselves well to the local competition.
Dylan Chapman 6:07 I'd say if anything it's just becoming more widespread across age groups and demographics.
Ted Kidd 6:11 And now with the internet and fast internet speeds, playing from home is definitely an option for a lot of kids and that's how they practice and get better.
Danelle Brostrom 6:22 This is amazing. What kind of practice, do you think your eSport athletes are, what kind of practice times they putting in?
Ted Kidd 6:30 So in the Pinckney District, we let them practice twice a week, two hours a night after school. And then they have matches twice a week. Sometimes they'll, they'll stay a little bit later to, to play against each other, or do another scrimmage online. So we have the kids in, after school, two hours a night, pretty much four days a week.
Dylan Chapman 6:51 Same here with my program. I'm actually in my eSports lab right now. We were able to commandeer an underutilized space. And we have practice here after school four days a week. We have matches twice a week. And one of the benefits I would say for families is that it does help to manage screen time for the students. Like when they're obligated to play, they're not as apt to get on once they get home. They kind of have gotten it out of their system in a controlled environment, and they move on to doing the things that they're supposed to do when they get home.
Ted Kidd 7:23 Yeah, like family time, homework.
Danelle Brostrom 7:26 Good, we're advocating balance. What is the coach's role during those practices, what does the coach do to encourage?
Ted Kidd 7:34 I'm gonna say most schools don't have coaches, they have advisors. And my job as, as an advisor is to just make sure they're in the right games, they're participating with their own team. Occasionally, we'll, we'll look at replay game footage to see what went right, what went wrong. When you study the film, just like in football, you can see where you made mistakes and get better. And then there's a lot of organizing that has to happen with these eSports programs. So things like fundraising, and just communicating with parents. Making sure that Athletic Directors and Superintendents, and Building Principals know what is going on. That's important. Communication is key.
Dylan Chapman 8:18 Yeah, the administrative back end definitely takes the bulk of what the adults responsibility is when it comes to coaching. Most of the advisors don't have the hundreds and hundreds of hours of gameplay experience that the players themselves have. Which is why player coaches and captains play a different role than they do in traditional sports, and there's almost more responsibility and leadership on their shoulders because of that, which is in my opinion, all good.
Danelle Brostrom 8:45 You said that you have a lab at your school, what, what what kind of hardware needs to have to get started?
Dylan Chapman 8:49 Ted could probably talk about the technical side of this, but it definitely varies from school to school. Some schools are ready to go, all they have to do is kind of like, turn the lights on and they're able to do it. Some schools will have to have, bring your own equipment, for a time period until they're able to establish funding or get the resources that they need donated in whatever capacity.
Ted Kidd 9:08 The technical side of things, depending on the games that your school wants to play, typically have to have at least six computers. And six is the number of machines needed for the game called Overwatch. With a team of Overwatch, you need pretty high end machines. I mean you don't need, you don't need to buy $2,000 desktops or anything but, for example, in Pinckney, we got Black Friday deal last year, and picked up 12 machines for $530 each. So, depending on where you look for the deals and specials you can really pick up, what you need relatively cheaply. Thankfully we were able to get a loan from our Athletic Department to get us started. In lieu of buying computers, you can also subscribe to a service called Shadowgaming. I don't want to advertise for them but, Shadowgaming is a service that allows anybody to create an account, and essentially you log into their, their account, all the computing is done in the cloud, at their facilities, and they essentially stream you, what you're doing online. It's a neat service. Unfortunately it's $20 per month, per account, so it's kind of a pricey investment. But if you don't have the resources available to get computers, it's a, it's an option for schools. There are some schools that are sharing spaces. So CAD Lab machines are typically a good way to use an area for a multi purpose. So CAD labs definitely have the, typically have the horsepower needed to to play these games.
Dylan Chapman 10:47 At my school we're repurposing some Robotics laptops that had 3D rendering abilities, which gave us the computing power to run the games at a decent setting. But yeah, cloud based computer gaming services shadow is one, Nvidia, which is a graphics card producer, they also have another one. That one's currently free. If schools wanting to experiment with just one season of league play it would be a cheap way to dabble. But long term I think building your own machines is probably the most cost effective, and you can incorporate some hands on computer science learning. With what Ted has done to update those computers, long term, they're not going to go out of date so to speak, they can just be updated which is, I would say, a cheaper one of the sports to participate in if you think about the equipment costs for other traditionals so.
Danelle Brostrom 11:40 You guys have mentioned the games a couple times. Talk to me about the games? How are the games chosen? Do you choose the games? Are there multiple games? How does that all work?
Dylan Chapman 11:48 So with our high school league we've chosen to go with Teen rating and below. And what we're trying to do is mirror what colleges and universities are playing. And what the colleges and universities are doing is they're mirroring what the professionals are playing. It's not to say that that's the end goal for us is to produce professional players, but we want to open up a dialogue between colleges and universities and high schools, and give an avenue to students that aren't typically given those opportunities to get scholarships for athletics.
Ted Kidd 12:19 The Teen rating, and I want to call it milder is important for schools. Because if we were to go to a rated M for Mature type of a rating for some of these games, you're looking at games with a lot of graphic violence, bloody, gory, realistic weaponry. To expose kids to it at a high school level I think is, right now irresponsible. Only because we don't know how communities will react to it, first of all, and your administration will shut you down if you do that. So, at this point, it's not a battle I want to fight at my school. So we definitely stick to the T rating.
Danelle Brostrom 13:01 Now Dylan you mentioned scholarships. What kind of opportunities are available here, here in Michigan or beyond. But what kind of opportunities are available for these kids that are starting with you in the MiHSeF.
Dylan Chapman 13:11 So I'd say that there's probably going on a dozen schools that offer varsity programs, which is scholarship opportunities for eSports. Most of those games are the games that we're playing in our league. That spectrum of games could change and we'll, we'll change with those changes. Schools like Davenport University, Aquinas College, Western has a major eSports lab, and arena. They're working on getting their scholarship program in motion. Surrounding states, especially in the Midwest Great Lakes area have kind of been at eSports for a while longer. So they have opportunities outside of the state and actually also in Canada. There are schools that offer scholarships, and if you have an athlete, you know your typical multi sport athlete, 4.0, who's also a top tier game player, and eSports, they're kind of picking and choosing what schools that they want to go to. So I have a student who fits the bill and all those describers that I just mentioned and he's literally just getting hounded by college recruiters for scholarship opportunities where they're matching half of his tuition and then he can on top of that stack his academic scholarship. So nearly a full ride to Division Two, Division One schools.
Ted Kidd 14:25 I want to make sure we mentioned all the schools in Michigan that offer scholarships for eSports. Sienna Heights University, Jackson College, Alma College, Northwood University, Aquinas College, Davenport University and soon, Michigan Tech.
Danelle Brostrom 14:42 Why are colleges, I mean, and businesses looking for these eSports players.
Ted Kidd 14:48 So, colleges have seats to fill, we, we've just been up to Northwood University to tour their campus, tour the eSports facilities for our playoffs for the fall. And met with their Esports head coach. And he was just saying the university's tuition is down, they have seats to fill, and they're trying different ways to get kids to come to their college. I think in Michigan, we've, we've kind of had this population drain since the, the last recession in 2007 ish. And all the people that moved away took the kids with them. I think it's, it's really had an adverse effect on things like education. So, Northwood is doing anything and everything they can to get kids in those seats and eSports is just the next evolution of trying to entice, you know 10 kids from this population, 10 kids from that population. If you get 10 here 10 they're in a lot of different places, and all of a sudden you've made up for that, that loss.
Dylan Chapman 15:53 And you're pulling from a diverse background of students to, from all over the state, because the students who play eSports transcend different demographics, and they're all interested in the same sorts of things. Usually like STEM related fields. So, those jobs are in high demand, and jobs in computer science and Michigan, there's a huge skill gap when it comes to workers. So trying to entice those kids to come together with other like minded students to become future partners or, or collaborators on the next app or whatever it might be, is what colleges and universities are trying to attract so they could put that quill in their head of alumni that have been successful,
Ted Kidd 16:34 As far as businesses are concerned, I think they've already found out that the, the students that are interested in eSports typically have a stronger background in the STEM, STEAM areas. So they're looking at potential engineers, and maybe even graphic artists, video production people. Some of those people that are creative but have like a solid knowledge of math and science. And let's not forget to mention to that the United States military are doing the same thing. They're, they're actively recruiting eSports students as well.
Dylan Chapman 17:10 And it's got the 21st century skill set that businesses are looking for when it comes to people who are remote, who are working together and problem solving towards a common goal. Being communative being adaptable, all of those things you've learned in game and also translate well into the office space.
Danelle Brostrom 17:29 Quite a few connections to ISTE which we talk about as well in the edtech world. So, is gender equity, an issue, and eSports? And if so, what do you, what are you guys doing to help recruit some diverse people?
Dylan Chapman 17:41 I mean, I think there's definitely a stigma, and a stereotype that your typical gamers a 15 year old boy. But, research shows that men and women of all age groups play games in some capacity. I mean look at your phone, you probably have some game on there that's just a casual type of play. But almost everybody as a gamer, even if they don't know it. Bringing people from that kind of casual play to competitive, is what we try to bridge the divide on. In my program we have quite a few girls, and because you're a female in the esports world you're kind of given an inflated profile when it comes to college recruitment. So I use that as kind of something that says like hey, you're a big fish in a small pond when it comes to being a female in this field because STEM fields also need females at this time too so. It's just a way to connect the dots to say, this is a high demand, high, highly lucrative field of work. And here's some pathways to get you more familiar with...
Ted Kidd 18:41 So in, at the Pinckney eSports program for our fall season we have two girls and are playing out of 16 total students. So there's definitely, gender equity gap that we're seeing. We try to promote the girls as much as possible. Like on social media, especially last year when we had two students that got scholarships to, to colleges, and one of them was a, was a girl. And we did everything we could to make sure that her profile was, was featured on our social media site. Just saying, there are opportunities for, for women in this, in this area. And as a Tech Director, I don't have the skills needed personally to, to know how to bridge that gap and, but I'm always looking for ways to for people to tell me, hey, try this or try that. And I'm very receptive to it, because I know there is a gap there.
Danelle Brostrom 19:39 So, this sounds amazing and already I'm thinking that my, my kids need to do this. Do you, do you need to be a gaming superstar to join the team?
Ted Kidd 19:49 In, in Pinckney, you just have to be a body that shows up and plays. We do have a pay to participate fee, unfortunately, only because our district doesn't fund it out of their general funds. Anybody that's willing, able, and even if they're not able we try to accommodate, things like physical disabilities and handicaps as, as much as possible. So, yes, anybody, anybody can do this. At the lower levels, you know elementary, middle school, the first thing they can do is, is to get involved with Minecraft. I think Minecraft is an excellent entry point for eSports. Minecraft licenses are free for Michigan K-12,
Danelle Brostrom 20:30 Are there any interesting new developments happening with your program or your league that you'd like to share?
Dylan Chapman 20:35 Our playoffs, I'm excited about our playoffs. So we're making networking connections with different universities around the state and our playoffs will be held December 7 at Northwood University. We also have lined up our Spring and Winter playoffs as well at different universities across the state. All of our players are from all across the league are welcome to come and mingle with other students with similar interests, do some casual play and find out who the best in the state are.
Ted Kidd 21:04 We've had a lot of schools that have reached out to us to contact us and they just want to know how to get started. Just yesterday I got a call from, I think, Menominee?
Danelle Brostrom 21:15 Menominie, Yes,
Ted Kidd 21:16 The ISD reached out to me yesterday and we had a pretty good discussion about how all of their School Districts up there could get started in eSports. So it's nice that we're having an impact, not just, you know in the population center of Michigan but up in the Upper Peninsula where, you know, kids might not have the same opportunities available. So, from what I've heard it's the Principals of the high schools that had this conversation, trying to get the ISD to help them. It's nice that the ISD is taking a leadership role to to get things like that started,
Danelle Brostrom 21:48 What advice, did you give them? I'm curious, how do high schools get started with all this because yeah, this is amazing and we should all be doing it.
Ted Kidd 21:55 Depending on what area you want to focus on you, you want to talk to both teachers and technology professionals. It seems like the tech people are needed to, to get things going, to provide the technical expert, expertise. But really, if you want to do this you have to get buy-in from either Superintendent, Athletic Director, Principal. And you have to have those stakeholders kind of on your side, because if they're not, then your programs doomed. Then you have to make sure that you have enough student interest to run a program. Certain schools in Michigan, that have built eSports programs, but can't get the kids to actually show up and play, which is bizarre in my mind, but it has happened. So if you build it, they won't necessarily come.
Dylan Chapman 22:43 I would say first is kind of take the temperature of the school. See if there's an interest for it. If there is, find an advisor who's willing to dedicate a lot of time, and a lot of patience to starting a program. You definitely have to get in touch, like Ted said, with your technical support team because this is a lot of what I'm doing here is out of my skill set. We have a technical support staff member on our high school campus who helps me out almost on a daily basis to jump hurdles with connections, updates, and equipment all the time. Beyond that, organization, communication with the community on what you're doing, and buy-in from the top down,
Ted Kidd 23:22 The final steps would be, make sure you have the equipment or the service to, to run the program, and join a league.
Danelle Brostrom 23:29 How long is the competitive season, what kind of a commitment are we talking about?
Ted Kidd 23:32 So for the MiHSeF League, our seasons are anywhere between six to eight weeks with a playoff. It varies based on the participation we get and the number of divisions that we have to kind of assemble.
Dylan Chapman 23:44 I believe it's eight weeks.
Ted Kidd 23:45 Okay
Dylan Chapman 23:46 So this season we're playing two games, which are Super Smash Brothers Ultimate and Overwatch. We play on Tuesdays and Thursdays. That ran from about October 1 until mid November around that area. And then after Christmas break we're going to have a winter season, that will run from after Christmas break till right before spring break or so and then a spring season that runs from after spring break till just near summer. So different games throughout. Depending on interest we might add more games in. But like Ted said, the length of the season is really determined by the number of participating teams across the state. So schools have had multiple Super Smash Brothers teams and multiple Overwatch teams. It's been going really smooth.
Ted Kidd 24:29 Yeah, for our first season this fall, we had 12 schools participate. Which is incredible when we compare that to other states surrounding us and what they said their numbers were for their first seasons. So in Super Smash Brothers we have 25 teams from those 12 schools. In Overwatch, unfortunately we only have 11 teams. We have one school that didn't want to participate in Overwatch, and that's okay.
Dylan Chapman 24:52 This is our first season of our first year of operation and schools have been signing up as the season's been underway. So I imagine next year we'll have a much better turnout. And even next season with the games that we're playing will have a better turnout as far as number of schools.
Danelle Brostrom 25:08 I keep hearing those same two games being talked about. I keep hearing Super Smash Brothers and Overwatch. What is it about those two games that either coaches are interested in, or kids are interested in or why those two?
Danelle Brostrom 25:17 The kids are definitely interested in Super Smash Brothers right now. It is the hot game. There are not just our league running it but there's tournaments popping up at colleges. Like every other weekend we see colleges running a Super Smash tournament.
Dylan Chapman 25:34 It's a very casual, social game, but it can also be extremely technical. It's like a game that you can play with your grandma, and then a game that you can play with the most professional players. So it appeals to a wide variety of players. And then Overwatch is a team based strategy, kind of capture the flag type of game. Defend the, defend an area kind of game with a lot of communication that's necessary and character types. That game I can see how that is a feeder program into the US military.
Ted Kidd 26:07 The United States Army eSports team has an Overwatch team that, and they're always on Twitter, talking about how to do certain things. They create videos for, for other players. It's really a cool program.
Danelle Brostrom 26:21 What do you hope for in terms of the future of your program or this league?
Dylan Chapman 26:25 I just hope for it to expand further beyond. To incorporate more schools, of course.
Ted Kidd 26:30 Kind of the vision and mission that we have for MiHSeF is to make sure that eSports is something that's viable for Michigan K-12. We have applied for our nonprofit organization status. So we want to make sure that we are able to find sponsorships and partnerships with businesses so that we can provide opportunities for students. Some of the things that we were thinking about we're providing mini grants for schools that can't afford to start eSports. To give them that initial capital to maybe get a few machines and get going. Right now we just have to focus on getting started.
Dylan Chapman 27:07 I'd like to see a middle school program emerge as well if somebody wants to take the reins on that. Work with us to create interest at the middle school level and start building those skill sets so that way we have just, you know, just like the other traditional sports they have middle school football and basketball and baseball, if we can extend that down to the middle school level for eSports that'd be great. The more schools we get, we've got regional play, some interstate play, because, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, they all have eSports leagues as well, and we've been piggybacking off of what works for them to create the league that we have now.
Ted Kidd 27:40 Just because it's a sit down competition, doesn't mean that it's necessarily a event or sport that doesn't include some activity. One of the things that high schools right now are doing is looking at the psychological nature of eSports and, and how to make sure kids are in the right mindset to play. We've been looking at physical fitness programs and regiments with our conditioning coach in Pinckney. Unfortunately, we couldn't do it this year because our Athletic Director told us, Hey your kids need to have physicals in order to do some of this stuff. So right now we just have them kind of walking around the school in between matches just to, you know, kind of get loose, clear their heads.
Dylan Chapman 28:24 Some schools are doing some sort of like, meditative yoga in between sessions. Some schools run kickball tournaments on the weekends to, to balance activity with mental kind of activities. And in gameplay, there's stats out there that show the players heart rates get up into the 120's and their, their blood is pumping and they're excited. So it's not like a couch potato type of thing, it's a very edge of your seat kind of activity. And really containing excitement, and keeping a cool head is part of the challenge of eSports. And that's also a translatable skill into the office place which is trying to keep a cool head while trying to focus on your end result in a stressful environment.
Ted Kidd 29:05 There's a local food pantry in the Pinckney area that we always make sure that we have a fundraiser to benefit them. And it's all about the giving back, type of mentality. Always looking at ways to give back, is something that the eSports community as a whole has done. There's organizations like Gamers for Giving.
Dylan Chapman 29:29 Gamers Outreach, there's a program that started in Saline actually, Saline, Michigan, where gamers go around with portable consoles to the Children's Hospital in Ann Arbor and just play video games with them. So the eSports world is definitely all about giving back, even if they haven't hit this kind of superstar status, it gives players, a platform to make their mark in the world.
Danelle Brostrom 29:53 This is the stuff that I love and this is why I think this podcast is really important, because I feel like some people if they don't understand it they dismiss it. It's, it's just kids playing video games, I don't understand why this is, why this is athletic, or why this is good or, but all the things that the kids are learning while they're playing these games, it's, those are transfer, transferable to any industry, and college and we want the kids to do these kinds of things.
Ted Kidd 30:17 Because of the, the learning that can happen. Having the adults in the room is the important step to make sure that they are getting the things taught to them that they need to be. Simple things like not getting upset when you lose, lose a match. You know, teaching them sportsmanship. Those are the skills that they need to have because if they get upset while they're at work and they break a keyboard or throw a mouse, it could get them fired. So we want to make sure that we, we teach them those skills like they have in any other traditional sport.
Dylan Chapman 30:49 Except for we can also offer digital citizenship skills when communicating virtually with other schools and teams. So, how to communicate on a sportsman like level with other, with other players. And when we have hangups and problems, how to resolve those issues, in a negotiated, compromising way. It's good for the students to see that model by the advisors, and it's also nice to see the students do that.
Ted Kidd 31:11 I think those are the types of skills that you want to promote to kids in your area. That's like the core of why all these schools are doing these things is to teach those skills.
Danelle Brostrom 31:25 I feel like this is about to blow up and you guys have done a ton of work, getting this started in Michigan.
Ted Kidd 31:29 A ton of work is very much an understatement here. There, there has been so much work involved to get this going. It's, it really blows my mind about how much each one of our members schools have done, just getting started. How much our board has done to make this a reality. I give everybody that's involved a ton of credit for just participating, having some input, writing the rules for games, developing a Policy Handbook, driving to different places to have meetings with each other, just so that everybody's on the same page. It's been a lot of work, but it's also been fun.
Dylan Chapman 32:07 And it's been a 100% grassroots effort, based on a nonprofit, not for profit sort of model that's completely focused on student experience and student outcomes.
Danelle Brostrom 32:16 Larry's handing me questions as we speak, is the,
Dylan Chapman 32:20 Thanks Larry
Danelle Brostrom 32:20 is there MHSAA involvement with eSports?
Dylan Chapman 32:23 They're kind of sit and watch sit and wait, sort of pattern right now. What they would want to do if they were to do something like this, is they would probably try to get somebody to break the ice on this and do exactly what we're doing. We tried to write our rules and policies in line with their rules and policies so that way when they do take it on that there's no, you know, reinventing, what eSports is so that way the transitions just really smooth,
Ted Kidd 32:50 We've actually reached out to the MHSAA to gauge their interest and tell them about what we're doing. There is the reality that we're facing that they may not want to ever do eSports. And in which case, we're, you know, building the foundation for high school eSports in Michigan right now, and that wouldn't be a bad thing. It also wouldn't be a bad thing if they did take it over, as long as we were able to have some input and provide the framework and structure to allow that to happen.
Dylan Chapman 33:22 Because we, we kind of know what works now. So they definitely be seeking guidance from somebody who's been through it already. So we're definitely willing to work with them whenever they're ready to take on eSports as part of the Michigan High School Athletics Association umbrella.
Ted Kidd 33:37 We just want to get people involved. We want to get schools involved. We want to get students excited about this, and it gives them the opportunity to, you know, learn. Because then the opportunity to have potential scholarships in college.
Dylan Chapman 33:53 I've seen, not only do they have to hold themselves to the academic standards of eligibility requirements as far as what our schools policy is based on but their attitude towards school I've seen it change. I've seen their focus pick up, because I've built that relationship with them through eSports. And then I'm sure that's translating and other classes as well.
Ted Kidd 34:14 Perry High School in Perry, Michigan, Zach Gardner runs that program there, along with his desktop technician, Josh, and they have a really high free and reduced rate in their school. So one of the things that they've done is they've gotten a after school meal program for their kids.
Dylan Chapman 34:33 Which is federally funded and fully supported to pay the staff and buy the food, and now they're serving breakfast, lunch and dinner at their school. And they have a great after school activity which is eSports.
Ted Kidd 34:46 He's also been able to acquire some Title 4 funds for his program to actually buy things. Just because he has a high free and reduced population doesn't mean that his kids can't have all the nice things that every other school district can and should have. So he's been buying gaming chairs and upgrading his computers, buying gaming monitors. With a high free and reduced population, you have kids that just don't care about school. They're more interested in, in figuring out where their next meal is coming from. They might have situations at home that they don't want to have to deal with but have to deal with anyway. So he's trying to make it an atmosphere where kids can come and be in a safe environment,
Dylan Chapman 35:25 Make friends, learn how to deal with frustrations in a controlled environment. It's great.
Ted Kidd 35:29 And also, get them involved in school so that their grades are high enough to actually compete. He's had a couple of kids that were failing that he's just told them, Hey, you have to, you know, meet the minimum requirements to be part of this and thankfully they did. And I think that's a testament to how eSports can affect kids.
Dylan Chapman 35:48 if eSports can help a kid graduate high school, you know, mission accomplished. If they can get a scholarship on top of that,
Ted Kidd 35:53 Icing on the cake.
Danelle Brostrom 35:54 Exactly.
Dylan Chapman 35:55 I don't want to jinx myself but I haven't really seen the downside of eSports yet.
Danelle Brostrom 35:59 So where do we go if we want to learn more about MiHSeF or we want to get started?
Ted Kidd 36:03 MiHSeF website is mihsef.org. You can email info@mihsef.org, and somebody will answer any questions. All of our rules, there's some technical documents, policy handbooks.
Dylan Chapman 36:18 How to, how to start a eSports team PowerPoint presentation on there.
Ted Kidd 36:23 We're developing more and more documents as resources for schools. But the website is really the hub and spoke of MiHSeF right now, where you find any and all the information that we have.
Danelle Brostrom 36:36 Awesome! What is your Twitter for those of us who need to know?
Ted Kidd 36:39 I think it's just @MiHSeF, very easy.
Danelle Brostrom 36:41 Perfect. Honestly guys, MiHSeF and, and in your work you're providing some amazing opportunities to Michigan's kids so, thank you. This is awesome.
Dylan Chapman 36:49 We're glad to do it.
Ted Kidd 36:51 Definitely.
Larry Burden 36:51 So in closing, follow us on Facebook and Twitter @tcapsloop
Danelle Brostrom 36:54 @brostromda
Larry Burden 36:55 Subscribe to the podcast on podbean, iTunes, Stitcher, Tune-in, downcast, overcast, the Google Play Store and Spotify or wherever else you get your ear candy, leave a review we love the feedback. Thanks for listening and inspiring.
Danelle Brostrom 37:12 That was Fan-tas-stic.
 
Intro music provided by Poddington Bear
Transcribed by https://otter.ai

EdTech Loop Ep. 94 - The Light Side of Data

Last week we discussed COPPA and the thousands of data points children create just by living and using our personal devices. Students also create data points at school which we hope to use to support teachers in helping those students achieve at their very best. It comes in many forms. You have SAT data, mandated state reporting data, but you also have a kindergarten student identifying colors, that's data, too. It's everywhere.
 
TechTool of the Week:
Copyrighteous Podcast
 
Full Transcript
Larry Burden 0:00 big theme that no one's gonna get
Larry Burden 0:07 Think Twilight Zone, and then you lose faith in humanity.
Andy Phillips 0:11 It sounds uplifting.
Larry Burden 0:11 It's fun for me,
Danelle Brostrom 0:12 it's very interesting.
Andy Phillips 0:15 It's my favorite of all time.
Larry Burden 0:22 It's Episode 94 of the EdTech Loop podcast. My name is Larry Burden and her midi-chlorian count is off the charts it's Danelle Brostrom, and also joining us, the TCAPS Yoda of data, Mr. Andy Phillips. We've learned to trust our feelings, which has revealed this week's moment of Zen
Moment of Zen 0:40 Pass on what you have learned, strength, mastery, but weakness, folly, failure, also yes, failure.
Larry Burden 0:50 Stay for some soup, you must, if you are to partake in this week's meat of the show, the light side of data. So, last week, last week's episode, we had, we had kind of a darker, maybe a little darker..
Danelle Brostrom 1:05 It wasn't dark it was informative,
Larry Burden 1:06 it was informative, but we kind of talked about data and how maybe the privacy of our children can be invaded and some of, some data points regarding them might be used for a less than helpful purpose in their life. We wanted to have, Mr. Phillips on here, Andy on to discuss what our school districts do with data that can really help them really achieve and grow in their learning. So with that being said, How are we using student data.
Andy Phillips 1:40 First Larry, let me, let me say that I did listen to last week's podcast. Larry and I had a brief conversation last night at an organization outside of school. And we talked about, COPPA, which, which I learned about listening to the podcast. I also, it was awesome because I was picking up my kid from gymnastics, which is where I saw Larry, and to listen to the podcast and the amount of time it took me to get home, I listened to it I'm double speed.
Danelle Brostrom 2:07 Nice.
Larry Burden 2:08 Very high voices.
Andy Phillips 2:10 It was awesome, yes. And because I know both of you have made it way more entertaining.
Danelle Brostrom 2:13 It makes me talk even faster.
Andy Phillips 2:16 And my daughter was freaked out by it to.
Danelle Brostrom 2:17 Okay, I'm gonna do that.
Andy Phillips 2:19 So I did listen to it and it was interesting that we call, to me that's, that's data. Yeah, I get it. And you guys talking about the thousands of data points that are out there just by basically living, not doing anything crazy high tech all the time, just living and using your personal devices creates all these data points. Well students have data points to and that's what we'll talk about today, I would assume is how we use student, like, assessment type data which comes in all sorts of forms. So how do we use it? It goes from school board reporting, state reporting, to the best use of data, which is teachers using it to help their students achieve at their very best. So that's a broad question, but that's a super, super broad answer that's how we use it, and it comes, you know, it's all sorts of forms. You have SAT data, which is college entrance and it's also mandated state reporting data, but you also have a kindergarten student identifying colors, that's data, too. Because of that student can identify colors and the teacher sees that, well, that student needs work on colors or patterns or shapes or whatever. So it's everywhere.
Larry Burden 3:31 You just kind of have, you know, pretty much answer the second question, but I want to go a little bit deeper so the next question was what data is being collected? And you kind of did it broadly. On a district level and in the classroom level what are we, what are we targeting? What kind of data is targeted by the district? 'Cuz I think that's, as you said, we're always collecting data. Every teachers is in the classroom collecting data, it's called observation. What data are we then trying to track and really use? Because I think one of the neat things that we're doing, you know, the Blueprint to some extent is really going on here what data is useful, and then kind of focusing and tracking that. What kind of are some of those things that oh, this is what we really want to key in on?
Andy Phillips 4:13 First of all, if it's not useful, and we don't have to do it, we shouldn't do it. That's, that's the bottom line Danelle's nodding.
Danelle Brostrom 4:20 Write that down. Say that again for the people in the back.
Andy Phillips 4:22 Right, and that's something that we have worked on with teams. And an example of that is we've taken away a lot of assessments for, that were required in the elementary world that we just weren't using and teachers weren't using. And if they were using they still have the option of, of doing it, right. From the district level, we use the summative data the most: MSTEP, PSAT, SAT, NWEA, and I'm excited with this new data tool that Danelle, and I went to a thing on OTUS which compiles these data points together. So, last week at Traverse Heights, when they had their half-day release-day, probably for the first time, maybe, maybe not for the first time ever, but the first, for the first time without doing hours and hours of laborious cutting and pasting, I was able to show a fifth grade teacher, here are your students last four NWEA scores along with their two last M-STEP scores. So that teacher can then narrow down, these are my real bubble students. Because this student was proficient in M-STEP math last year but not this year, and NWEA scores indicate that the student has a shot at being proficient on M-STEP. What does she do with that data, she's aware, that's the most important thing in my opinion. She's just aware so that she just holds that student to this higher standard knowing that, yeah, your track record says, you can do it and you'll be a needle mover for our school. The more local it can be the better. Anything is data. You said it, observations are data and oftentimes teachers don't remember that or recognize that as being as important as some of this other stuff. I think another theme I say all the time whenever I'm working with teachers is you always should have a reason for what you're doing, and there should be some sort of output. And the reason for what you're doing is usually, whatever the assessment is going to be, right? So whatever that is, you should be using it to gauge how closely, students are coming into whatever the learning target is. I had a Moment of Zen moment. I did a...
Larry Burden 6:18 Only if it's a Yoda quote because that's what I was going with
Andy Phillips 6:20 It's not Yoda
Danelle Brostrom 6:22 Listened to last weeks pod and has a Moment of Zen, you need to come back often.
Andy Phillips 6:24 I've got a couple of them. Just because I, the Moments of Zen, make me laugh every time that I hear them. This is a good one. It's not Star Wars though, it's from Mark Twain
Moment of Zen 6:37 Data is like garbage. Better know what you're going to do with it before you collect it.
Andy Phillips 6:43 Are you going to put sound effects in there
Larry Burden 6:44 100% hundred percent. I might even change your voice, put you on half speed. Well, we have the data. We know how it's being collected. How are we communicating those findings with teachers? How are we making it useful? We have these, these points, these tools. We have the data, as you said, we want to know what we're going to do with it. So how are we communicating that?
Andy Phillips 7:07 Yeah. The more the teacher can own the data, the better. but there are so many, so many different areas that that data is located. That sometimes...
Larry Burden 7:18 Let's start at the district level and go down.
Andy Phillips 7:19 It can be a roadblock. Okay, well I'm thinking of how do we get this data to teachers. So NWEA is a really good example. Many teachers, probably most teachers, maybe even all teachers are pretty savvy at manipulating the NWEA Data Warehouse website. So they go on and probably look at a quadrant report which is maybe the best thing that...
Danelle Brostrom 7:38 I agree.
Andy Phillips 7:38 teachers can look at as far as just like a balcony view. But teachers are doing that themselves. It's not like, I mean some principals might give teachers a copy of maybe they're quite a report, but it's all about the teacher being able to mine it. And then, you know, as far as other data points go. It's just a matter of how savvy teachers are themselves at mining into it. Like I'm thinking another really rich source of data is Think Central, because we do all sorts of assessments on Think Central. But if the teacher isn't savvy about how to get in there and do it, and really look at the results, you can see results by Common Core State Standards in Think Central, but it takes some clicks to get there and often that can be a roadblock.
Larry Burden 8:20 I'm sorry to interrupt, what is Think Central?
Andy Phillips 8:23 It's the online testing tool that's our big publishing company for elementary reading and math. It's where all the assessments are housed, and kids take the tests through Think Central. So unit tests, passage tests, those kinds of things.
Larry Burden 8:42 So it's not all over the place. They're not having to search and...
Andy Phillips 8:44 Right, but the more savvy you are. So Danelle can speak to this too because there are teachers out there that get just gobs of really good information, and so when it comes time for something like report cards. Teachers can pull these really great reports, by doing smart things from Think Central, but their, I would say more savvy at being able to use it. And it definitely has, just like everything else, a personality to it. And sometimes it doesn't always, you know, work like we want it to work and whatever. But if you're less savvy, you're just probably doing what the minimum requirements are, and then what happens is the data? Probably not much.
Larry Burden 9:21 As a Tech Coach, what are you finding regarding Think Central and that usability, what questions are you being asked Danelle?
Danelle Brostrom 9:28 I love that we're at the point where we're asking these questions, frankly. I love that education is at this point where we're saying, how am I going to use this data today to make changes to my instruction tomorrow. And if I'm not using the data let's get rid of it. And how do I question what I'm giving the kids to decide whether it's actually going to make a difference or not. Like, I love that we're at a point in education where we're doing that. Because the beginning of my career, we weren't. We were still just following what we were supposed to be doing. We weren't, we weren't giving it that extra piece of thought, and using the data in this way. So I love that we're here. I totally agree with Andy. I think it just depends on the teachers comfort level with using that data. We've, we've done a really good job at collecting it but I think that next piece, and this is the same everywhere, I think that next piece of actually how to use that data to change your instruction is where we're at. I think we're doing, we're making strides with that every day.
Andy Phillips 10:18 One more thing to that I think is really important and relevant to this part of any kind of data conversation is that it shouldn't just be used, like for, for individual students, and individual student growth. And a lot of my work, probably my favorite part of my work, is when a teacher has a really good idea, and wants to try something in his or her classroom. You can use data to see if something is working or not. Instead of thinking how am I going to look at it today, to adjust for tomorrow. You can think of it, what do I want the data to show based on my hypothesis that this will be a needle mover for students. And so setting these goals then looking back, like holistically at, did this work. To either validate or to say you have to change what I thought wasn't going to work. That's another really powerful use of it, and that's another thing that wasn't really happening I don't think when we all started in this field. We would do something, and it basically sunsetted when the material got old or things ran its course. And we would maybe try something different and the only thing we had to prove anything might be MEAP scores or something like that. And even then, it was so, so in the past, whatever that data was that you can make..
Larry Burden 11:33 The MEAP was always well behind and not useful.
Andy Phillips 11:35 And the MSTEP continues to be. So we have all this data that's now in real time. But, I just wanted to put that in here that, that's another thing that teachers need to be empowered to use it for decision making for, for things that they, they think about. Just it's all over the place, when a teacher has an idea, and we can actually give it a shot and pilot something, the pilot comes along with, well what are the expectations, and if we don't meet those expectations we have to go back to either the way it was or rethink.
Danelle Brostrom 12:02 I think it's exciting for teachers because I think things are more concrete. It's not just kind of like oh, it feels like it's, it's, it's okay it's working.
Larry Burden 12:10 Driving down the road without headlights on.
Danelle Brostrom 12:11 Yeah, it feels more concrete and it's exciting for students because it's definitely we're doing things that are making a difference.
Larry Burden 12:17 What's the most striking or surprising piece of data that you've run into since you've been here?
Andy Phillips 12:24 Larry that would have been a great way to give me a heads up on before
Danelle Brostrom 12:25 Tough question, wow.
Larry Burden 12:25 I thought about it.
Andy Phillips 12:30 The most surprising thing to me was that, and continues to be that data is located in so many different places. And you really have to work to try to make sense of it for whatever different stakeholder group that you work with. Gosh, I'd say the most interesting thing and it probably was the same thing before I, before I came and will continue to be because it's like this, this big puzzle. It's really interesting to me that students who may be high achieving on one type of test, or are pretty high achieving like good AB students sometimes are not high achieving on some, like, like an M-STEP or like a PSAT. And so that's something that a lot of curriculum leaders at TCAPS are trying to really hone in on. Which is why I mentioned getting that data all compiled together so we can identify who those students are, and, and hopefully move the needle. But that continues to surprise me. So I just looked at a thing today, that I shared with someone that had a student who scored, like in the 80th percentile in the last iteration of NWEA math, but wasn't proficient on the last iteration of the M-STEP for that student, but was proficient on two years agos M-STEP. That's what's interesting to me. And, just to try to build more consistency in it for students, so that when it comes time to take that 11th grade SAT which is as high stakes as it gets. Because that's the thing that can get kids into college and financial assistance, and to make those more predictable. And, you know, if we can hone in on those types of students and really help them achieve proficiency that's going to be good for everybody.
Larry Burden 14:06 How does the Blueprint help in that communication process, in that finding out what information, what data is useful? You know, that back and forth. It's funny, I hear a lot of your meetings, because you're right next door to my office and I hear some really good discussion about data, how has that...
Andy Phillips 14:25 Do you hear the bad discussions?
Larry Burden 14:25 I put the headphones on.
Andy Phillips 14:25 Yeah, right.
Larry Burden 14:29 How does that, that structure help that dialogue?
Andy Phillips 14:32 Probably the most important thing we do with the Blueprint is something that is just really good practice whether your Blueprint District or not, but the Blueprint forces you to do it, is this thing called Performance Management. So every month the Instruction, Curriculum Instruction Team sits down basically with Principals, sometimes Assistant Principals, sometimes Teacher Leaders from each school, and we go over, basically the balcony view of data. And then Principals and those Teacher Leaders are prompted to have those same discussions with their building networks. Without something like the Blueprint, those things wouldn't be in place to do so regularly. And it just holds you to doing them regularly. And it forces you, and that's a, that's an okay word to use here, it forces you to pick some sort of data to discuss each month. And we have it all laid out. So like, the first month was M-STEP data, because it was September first time we've talked about it, since we came back from summertime. The next month was NWEA holistic proficiency data. This next month is going to be what we can mine out of Think Central. Getting local, talking about student grades with secondaries. But we're kind of forced to stick to the same timelines so that Principals know what to prepare for and so that you know we just don't going to be talking about when each month comes. That's a really powerful part of the Blueprint. It holds you to these things, and it makes you lay it out for the year so that you have something to follow.
Larry Burden 15:54 Teaching students is really complex, and I know in the past, having been some of those meeting, meetings, involving curriculum, it can spiral very quickly into a ton of different topics, and it's really hard to manage a meeting and make sure that you have an outcome that's workable and actionable. It's been interesting to hear those, the meetings, involving the Blueprint, because it always seems like there's something actionable coming out of it that's data driven.
Andy Phillips 16:20 Yep, when we're leading meetings, like we're having a social studies workbook committee that just, I'm organizing the agenda now and there's going to be data in that committee. We're going to put out there our struggling, 5th grade M-STEP Social Studies scores because that's the objective of that group. And that's, there's no reason not to make it the objective. There's no reason not to say that we're coming together, investing in teachers to make the work more robust for students because we think that'll move the needle with M-STEP scores. So yeah, even, even on stuff like that we're bringing data back into the conversation all the time.
Larry Burden 16:53 To tie in what we talked about last week, we are collecting all this data, how are we keeping it safe? And we all look at Danelle?
Andy Phillips 16:59 I learned about COPPA last night, at double speed, in my car so.
Danelle Brostrom 17:07 Well I think currently all the places where we are keeping data we've negotiated the terms of those agreements with those companies so we're good with those. It's all of the random things that we just need to get ahold of.
Larry Burden 17:19 The research has been done, and I think, I bring that up not to do a gotcha, I brought that up to, you know, if there are parents listening to this, to know that the main sources of data that we're using have been vetted.
Danelle Brostrom 17:35 Yes,
Larry Burden 17:35 You know, Danelle's read the,
Danelle Brostrom 17:37 We got you
Larry Burden 17:37 Terms, Danelle's read the policies. We're safe.
Andy Phillips 17:40 Yeah, something that I found interesting coming to TCAPS is we did have a Danelle and we did have this big, fairly large Technology Department that does do all those things. And it took, it takes a minute to get used to all the people that you have to tell, or communicate with of things that you're doing going forward so that people like Danelle can make sure the privacy policy, policy is okay. And if it's not, you know, how can we work, either work through it, or make sure that we adjust whatever our agreement is so that it is ok. So those things do happen sometimes you have to be reminded Oh, you didn't tell so and so and you should have told them in the beginning. Getting better at that.
Larry Burden 18:22 Well I think, I think we do have a bit of a Lone Ranger mentality sometimes in education. And, you know, we go off on our, our tangents. But the structures are there. The structure, structures are in place, not to put a lid on the creativity that's going on in the classroom, they're there to keep us safe in the classroom, and to support the teachers in doing what they could be doing. And making sure that, for instance the, the data that they're collecting from their students is safe and useful as you were saying earlier, you know if we're not using the data that's collected, we probably shouldn't be doing that assessment.
Andy Phillips 18:57 Mark Twain said that.
Larry Burden 19:01 With that, is there anything else Danelle?
Danelle Brostrom 19:04 No.
Larry Burden 19:04 All right. TechTool of the Week
Andy Phillips 19:08 Can I
Larry Burden 19:08 I'm sorry, I'm sorry
Andy Phillips 19:09 I prepared, I prepared, one more quote for this. This is a good Moment to Zen to.
Moment of Zen 19:13 Data will talk to you if you willing to listen.
Andy Phillips 19:16 By some guy named Jim Burgesson. And finally, I like this one too.
Moment of Zen 19:22 If we have data let's look at data, if all we have our opinions. Let's go with mine.
Andy Phillips 19:31 That's a good closing right?
Danelle Brostrom 19:32 That should be one your business card.
Larry Burden 19:33 Yes it should. TechTool of the Week. Beat that, follow that.
Techtool of the Week 19:42 I can't. There is a new podcast out that I'm really enjoying it's called Copyrighteous, and it's by Diana Gill. And what she's doing is kind of awesome. They're called micro podcasts, and they are discussing responsible creativity for educators. So, leading on our privacy and COPPA discussion last week. Her first episode was just a short little five minute snippet where students want to know how to use music safely in a video project. Here's how to use music safely in this video project. I'm really interested to see where this podcast goes because I think anytime we can get those short snippets about digital citizenship and media literacy to our teachers, the better off we are. So keep an eye on this podcast they're doing some pretty cool stuff,
Larry Burden 20:23 How long are they?
Danelle Brostrom 20:24 five minutes, boom, here's your stuff here's what you need to know. So Copyrighteous.
Larry Burden 20:28 Tutorials and updates, really, unbelievably, the TechNollerGist has no new tutorials this week which is the first time I think this year that he hasn't had at least two out. So, come on, come on, David, get busy.
Andy Phillips 20:41 Maybe he should hold one back so he has one in the can
Danelle Brostrom 20:42 Yeah David.
Larry Burden 20:47 Last weekend three, to be honest, so I guess we'll give them a break this time. So really, I was just going to give another shout-out to the COPPA podcast last week I think it was really informative and it would benefit anybody to listen I do believe. So in closing, follow us on Facebook and Twitter @TCAPSLoop
Danelle Brostrom 21:02 @Brostromda
Andy Phillips 21:04 @fishinspartyap
Larry Burden 21:06 All right! Subscribe to the podcast on podbean, iTunes, Stitcher, Tune-in, Downcast, Overcast, the Google Play Store and Spotify or wherever else you get your ear candy. Leave a review, we love the feedback. Thanks for listening and inspiring.
Andy Phillips 21:23 The next time if there's, if there's a focus for it, that would be lovely.
Larry Burden 21:27 Sure.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Music by Podington Bear

EdTechLoop Ep. 93 COPPA and Data Privacy

"The primary mission of COPPA is to place parents in control of what info is collected from their children. As a parent, I find this impossible." - Cheri Kiesecker
What is COPPA? In 1998 Congress made some value judgments about the potential harm to children due to online activity. That it was important for websites that are targeted towards kids to collect parental consent before they collect, use, or disclose any of the child's information and data. The Federal Trade Commission (FTC), made some rules and suggestions as to how that would happen, and COPPA is the result of this work.
 
Show Notes and Links:
COPPA Workshop Video  
The Digital Playground - App Design, Data Collection, and Policy Implications - Jenny Radesky from U of M Medical School
State of the World in Children's Privacy - Panel 1
Twitter: #COPPAworkshop
Great articles about the FTC workshop:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/10/opinion/coppa-children-online-privacy.html 
https://www.edsurge.com/news/2019-10-08-the-ftc-has-its-sights-on-coppa-and-edtech-providers-should-take-notice  
 
Tech Tool of the Week: It's Digital Citizenship Week!  Follow #digcitcommit. It has a ton of great ideas on incorporating this topic into your classroom. Also visit Common Sense Media for our #TechTooloftheWeek.  
Show Transcript:
Danelle Brostrom 0:04 Okay, can I tell you I'm worried about this topic.
Danelle Brostrom 0:12 What, is today Tuesday?
Danelle Brostrom 0:14 Danelle was awful this week so
Larry Burden 0:17 it'll be. We'll see
Danelle Brostrom 0:19 Can that be your intro. Heck yeah
Larry Burden 0:21 So there we go.
Larry Burden 0:26 It's Episode 93 of the EdTech Loop podcast my name is Larry Burden and she wishes she was at the hottest spot north of Havana, it's Danelle Brostrom. It's really cold in here.
Danelle Brostrom 0:37 It's really cold in here.
Larry Burden 0:38 After reading the iching's terms of service agreement, we've decided to share publicly this week's moment of Zen.
Moment of Zen 0:45 They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve, neither liberty, or safety.
Larry Burden 0:54 The rest of these essential ingredients are copyright protected, but we've, we've obtained the rights to add them to this week's meat of the show. The future of privacy. I had, I had a question to start out with but I really wanted, I wanted, I had these quotes and I'm like I want to start out with this and see where you go with it. So the quote this time was from Twitter, because Twitter, the primary mission, first, am I pronouncing right is it Copa?
Danelle Brostrom 1:20 COPPA,
Larry Burden 1:21 COPPA because they don't want it to be the Copacabana, which is the reference earlier.
Danelle Brostrom 1:24 I got'cha. Now I get it.
Larry Burden 1:27 There we go, and it's really cold in here. Did I mention it's cold in here?
Danelle Brostrom 1:29 It's cold in here.
Larry Burden 1:31 "The primary mission of COPPA is to place parents in control of what info is collected from their children. As a parent, I find this impossible." And that's from Cheri Kiesecker @cherkies. I do believe on Twitter, and I read that and I thought to myself. Yep. Yep. So, what is COPPA?
Danelle Brostrom 1:55 The original COPPA was passed in 1998, and it was enacted in 2000. So just, just think about that in terms of where we've come in ed tech first of all,
Larry Burden 2:04 First what is COPPA?
Danelle Brostrom 2:06 You're gonna kick me back there aren't you? Okay.
Larry Burden 2:08 Acronym time.
Danelle Brostrom 2:09 So, essentially Congress made some value judgments about the potential harm to children due to online activity, and so that it was important for websites that are targeted towards kids to collect parental consent before they collect, before they use or disclose any of the child's information and data. So the FTC, which is the Federal Trade Commission, made some rules and suggestions as to how that would happen, and COPPA is kind of the result of this work. So it really provides special protections for what they deem to be children which is actually under 13, which is another conversation that they had. But it's it really just tries to protect our littlest, our littlest, littles for thier online activity. So it's, what I was saying is it's interesting because the fact that this was thought of in '98, when the internet was really just starting to gain some traction and then enacted in 2000. That was 19 years ago. There was a small update done in 2013 which I want to talk about later but there's a lot that has happened since then. Which is why, I think, last week, the reason this topic came up on my radar at least. Last week the FTC had a workshop called "The Future of COPPA Rule," and they had an entire day's worth of some experts who were talking about this digital playground idea. And they had panels, they had experts, it was just amazing and fascinating and that's actually why it was late to record the podcast today because I was sitting in my office watching the tape from last week, so.
Larry Burden 3:43 You are correct, nerdy.
Danelle Brostrom 3:44 I know so nerdy, but I will link it up in the show notes because I think there's some really good, there's some good information and there were some sessions that were really really good so I will point those out.
Larry Burden 3:54 It seems to me that in the early 2000's, actually a little bit ahead of the game.
Danelle Brostrom 4:00 For sure, oh yeah.
Larry Burden 4:01 At that point in time, you know, some very smart people saw that there was going to potentially be some issues. As we've gone through the next two decades, it seems like we've kind of dropped the ball. Fumble!
Danelle Brostrom 4:11 We have, we have dropped the ball. But it's, I don't think it's really our fault. I think the, if you look at the, even just the amount of mobile devices in the home from when this was enacted to now, I mean you went from like 41% had smartphones to like 95% have smartphones and they're putting their kids on them. Just that tidal wave of an increase in devices. It was dramatic, and it was game changing, and I think we as parents and teachers are trying to keep up. I think our pediatricians are trying to keep up. The researchers are trying to keep up. And everyone's just trying to figure out how to manage it all. I don't think that we meant to drop the ball. I think that it was just all of a sudden the tsunami was coming at us and we were like, Oh, well, I wasn't prepared for that. So I think that in, I mentioned that in 2013 they did do some updates to it. They said things like, hold on I'm going to grab my notes because this is a really really meaty topic.
Larry Burden 5:11 There's a lot of notes,
Danelle Brostrom 5:12 There's a lot of notes. But they did increase the protections. They said that we are going to talk about new forms of PII. So, so, PII is, are all the things that we use to, to identify kids, so they are now talking about behavioral advertising, so identifiers that can recognize the user over time and across websites, that that can be considered PII. And photos, and videos, and audio files can be a kid's PII. So if you're putting an audio recording of a kid online, that's their personal identifiable information. Geolocation is also included in that. They increased some new forms of parental consent. So some new ways that parents can say yes I approve of this site or No, I don't. And then they also increased the coverage to talk about like, Internet of Things devices, like little vtech tablets and things like that. And platforms like YouTube were included for the first time. So, it was good that they made some changes there and I think, and they talked about this in the, in the panel, that there's, there's a lot more that they still need to do. And some countries are further ahead than us. Like looking at the GDPR that's over in Europe. They're a lot more strict, and they do provide people more control over their data. And California inacted some laws to increase protection for kids under 16, and that if you're a business you have to have like an age gate on your website that says are you for sure over 16m, and they have to opt in or opt out. It's not perfect, but I think
Larry Burden 6:41 Sounds, sounds less than enforceable.
Danelle Brostrom 6:44 It's, yes it is unfortunately. But I think the fact that people are talking about this, and people are asking for more regulation is just showing that we don't quite understand, we don't quite trust what companies are doing with our data. So, it's good that people are talking about this. It's great that they had this entire day of experts talking about this rule and how they can make things better for kids.
Larry Burden 7:07 You know briefly going through the thread, the corporations don't have a handle on it, the users certainly don't have a handle on it. I think there's a, there's a lack of understanding on some of the basic issues, probably because it is going so fast, I forget the TED talk, it was the Google Designer he was, a former Google Designer,
Danelle Brostrom 7:30 Okay,
Larry Burden 7:30 That brought up that really attention right now is the commodity. That's the currency, and I don't know if, I don't even know if companies really recognize, you know, or the powers that be really recognize that that is the case, even though they are marketing to it. One of the stats that did come up was, you know, 53% of kids ages three to four have already been online and have an online presence, and by the age of 18 every person has at least 70,000 data points, trackable data points. And that I have to say, I wouldn't doubt it that's old data.
Danelle Brostrom 8:13 Yeah,
Larry Burden 8:14 It came in reference to a particular business owner that mentioned that things aren't marketed, that their digital devices or online devices, aren't marketed to kids. Either, that was just a lie, or there was a lack of recognition that since most, most things online are based off of algorithms, anytime something is getting tracked and the, that data is getting logged the algorithm is going to feed marketing to the child. They're going to give them what they want based on the clicks and those data points. So even though this device isn't specifically marketed to the child, which I don't necessarily buy,
Danelle Brostrom 9:00 Right
Larry Burden 9:00 either, but it's a soft currency, even as a soft currency, that being attention, the algorithm is marketing to the child. Specifically, the individual child. We are allowing that, that currency to be spent.
Danelle Brostrom 9:18 You should,
Larry Burden 9:19 I told myself I wasn't gonna get on a soapbox and that took about five minutes.
Danelle Brostrom 9:23 You should go back Larry and watch the section of the FTC workshop. The first person who spoke, her name is Jenny Radesky, and she's from U of M medi, medical school. She was fascinating with the research that they've been doing down there on App design, data collection and policy implications. They did a content analysis of 135 apps that are marketed or played by children that were found in the kids section of the App Store. So, these aren't necessarily ones that were recommended for kids, but they were one that they said, sure kids can play 'em. We'll throw, throw them in the kids section. and they...
Larry Burden 10:00 Not to interrupt but, they're not recommended for kids, but if a kid is on the app store, and the data points that they're placing on the App Store lead them there, guess what, it is marketed to kids.
Danelle Brostrom 10:12 Right, and they found on those apps that were marketed towards kids, lots of pop up ads, bannered ad's, sponsored content. And some of them said things like sponsored content, but they're marketed towards preschoolers, and preschoolers can't read. So you're trying to get them to click on those things. Some of the ads even had inappropriate content for kids, guns and knives, adult themed content. The ad networks aren't filtering out the adult ads, and they're also using an adult centered design. They're trying to apply that to kids, and kids can't, kids can't distinguish, all the research shows that kids, even school age and school age and under, they can't distinguish what's going on with that advertisement. So applying an adult centered design to kids apps is really something we as a consumer need to, need to fight against because kids deserve content that is designed for them, and that is safe for them, and that is just not going to put them in situations where they're seeing all these things. That's not fair.
Larry Burden 11:13 That leads me to the question, so what is age appropriate design? I saw that a lot, in a lot of the, the tweets. What does that mean?
Danelle Brostrom 11:22 I would look to PBS as a leader in that. If you look at the stuff that PBS is putting out they are always thinking of the end user and the child. I mean, man, it goes back to Mr. Rogers Neighborhood ya know. I mean, I know but that was designed for a child, and what a child needs, and I think that, I think as a culture and as a society we need to recognize that kids need something different and kids deserve something different. And even if you look at the number of kids that are playing, we talked about the content that was marketed towards kids but a lot of the kids are playing the content that isn't marketed towards them and how do we, how do we keep them safe. I think it's our duty to give kids a better experience and I would look to PBS as a leader in that.
Larry Burden 12:09 So a couple things. Talking about Mr. Rogers
Danelle Brostrom 12:13 Awe, see. I did it to.
Larry Burden 12:16 And I want to bring up something called the Children's Fire. I think we may have talked about this as well. By a, it was a book by Tim McCartney, and he also had a talk and we'll link in the show notes to the talk. So I think it's really important. And the general concept, ya know, not to go too deep into it, is a healthy society puts the child first. And when they're making decisions on an adult level, the first question that's asked, before any other question is, is this good for our children? So when we're talking about age appropriate design, when we're talking about algorithms, when we're talking about any of this, on the highest level, on that, to be honest, on that corporate level, when they're when decisions are being made about what is, what is appropriate, or what is healthy, for our product, long term, really the first question that needs to be asked or should be asked is, is this good for our children. Until that happens a lot of the conversation around COPPA is going to probably miss, or is going to be hard to enforce, or hard to establish, because the will behind it isn't there. PBS is doing a very good job, but if the algorithm isn't leading the child to PBS, the child's not going to see it. Their decisions are going to be led some place else. And as Sherry Keisecker had said, "as a parent, I find it impossible," to keep track of those data points and really manage my child's online identity, without it being a real community effort.
Danelle Brostrom 13:59 I think it has to be. I don't think it's fair to put that on parents. And I think that's what our tech companies and our app makers have said. They've said, well parents need to use this monitoring software, and parents need to do a better job of being next to their kids when they're using their device to make sure that they're doing what's appropriate. Yeah, we should, but, wow, that is so ridiculously hard and you can't put another thing on my shoulders because as a parent, I am trying to do a million things and you've got kids with these devices that can move from room to room. It's not just sitting down and watching a television program together and talking about it, it's,
Larry Burden 14:35 They're not wrong. I mean, they're not wrong,
Danelle Brostrom 14:37 They're not wrong but man,
Larry Burden 14:39 but it should
Danelle Brostrom 14:39 help us out a little bit.
Larry Burden 14:40 Exactly, exactly. It's really easy for both the parent and the corporation, or the school, or whatever you know, entity, it is to say, it's somebody else's fault.
Danelle Brostrom 14:50 Yeah, right.
Larry Burden 14:52 And I'll go back to the, the Children's Fire, until all the parties involved start with the question: is this good for the child? we're probably going to miss the mark. It really does affect how our children are perceiving the world, and how they're educated, and how they grow, and what society they grow into.
Danelle Brostrom 15:14 And I think, EdTech needs to be talking about this. I know that sometimes when I have this discussion with my teachers, they're like: What are you doing, everyone else is using this app, nobody's talking about this, why are you, why are you bo..., why are you putting a lid on this? And I feel like, okay, not everyone is talking about this yet, but man, we have to be, especially in EdTech. ISTE did a survey and districts with over 1000 students, which I mean, we're over 10,000, but districts with over 1000 students are using approximately 548 different ed tech tools. And that came from the Project Unicorn site which if you don't know Project Unicorn, they're amazing. They do a lot of work with interoperability, so how can all these things talk to each other so that it doesn't end up being more work on the teachers part to collect all this data. It's another whole thing we'll talk about another time. But, but, man just 548 distinct ed tech tools. Think about all that data, and all of those kind of issues.
Larry Burden 16:11 In a district a tenth the size.
Danelle Brostrom 16:11 Yeah, all those companies are, their marketing to schools and schools are signing up because this is a great way to get kids engaged, or this is going to help with this one problem I have in the classroom, or this is going to make me more efficient, or whatever. But you can't rely on those tech companies to protect our kids data. We have to be, we have, we have to be on it, and we have to check it, and we have to use something else if that doesn't do what we want. I think this is a discussion worth having and especially, especially in Ed Tech.
Larry Burden 16:41 No matter what we do there's data points.
Danelle Brostrom 16:43 Yes, but we can do a better job for our children. Our children deserve better than what they're getting right now. They deserve to have control of their data. They deserve to say no, I am, I am six years old and I shouldn't be tracked and marketed towards. We, like what you talked about, we need to do better for our children if we want them to grow up in a society that just makes sense and it's good for them.
Larry Burden 17:08 Well I think we already have lost or don't have a handle on the ways in which our simplest attention is affecting the environment that's put in front of us. It's not 50's advertising, it's a lot more subtle, it's a lot softer, and a lot more invasive, and we don't see it and it, we certainly don't see it for our kids.
Danelle Brostrom 17:31 Here's what I think is encouraging though. There are experts looking at this. There are experts that are talking about this. And they are trying to make this better. That's important, I think five years ago, if you went to, go back to ed tech, if you went to any of your big ed tech conferences, this was not on anyone's radar at all. So I think the fact that you will see sessions about this, and people are talking about, about data and how we can do better for our kids. That's encouraging. So this isn't Black Mirror.
Larry Burden 18:00 Thank you. Thank you. So what were some of the findings?
Danelle Brostrom 18:03 Some of the work being done, just that. Well, they definitely need to look at COPPA again, and make sure that they're covering all the things that they want to cover with it. There was a lot of discussion about, is 13 the appropriate age? Should it be higher? No decisions were made, it was just a discussion among experts. And then I think one of the big things that they kept reiterating was that there is some potential harm with using emerging technologies, and they were concerned that people were going to go Oh, this is bad, we're out. But there's so much good there as well. So, I think you can't get freaked out and totally cut yourself off from everything which we talk about that a lot on this podcast. There's a lot of good things about, about e-learning that we can, you know, data can help support teachers make better decisions and we can really zero in on what that individual child needs, and we can do a lot of good things with letting kids be creative...
Larry Burden 19:08 Data is not necessarily bad.
Danelle Brostrom 19:10 No, data is not necessarily bad, and all those online things that we used to do those, those great things they do collect personal data, but we just need to be cautious. But the fact that it's not all bad I think that was a big thread throughout the conference. And then they also talked about whether schools and teachers can continue consenting on the behalf of parents. Because right now they can. There's a school official designation or something like that where I can say that yes we need this for school, I'm going to consent on the behalf of parents and let my kids use this. But parents should really be in control of their minor status. So there was a lot of discussion about that. I think that the FTC is going to revisit this and that, you know, time will tell what kind of protections we can put in place for our kids but I think it was encouraging.
Larry Burden 19:57 The fact that the discussion is happening, is a step in the right direction.
Danelle Brostrom 20:01 We're talking about it on the podcast...nerds.
Larry Burden 20:06 There's so much more meat on this bone,
Danelle Brostrom 20:08 No I'm, I think there are definitely some articles and some images from the recording that I want to link up and the recording and I'll do that in the show notes.
Larry Burden 20:17 Going back to the "what is age appropriate design," as we're bringing our children through the school system, incorporating appropriate digital literacy as they're going through. When they get to 13, the hope would be they're more literate, digitally literate and able to handle some of the decision making regarding data and privacy at that point because they've been made aware, and educated appropriately regarding it.
Danelle Brostrom 20:45 Boom. Can you TechTool of the Week me?
Larry Burden 20:47 Is it, is it that time. Is it TechTool of the Week time?
Techtool of the Week 20:54 It is Digital Citizenship Week, and there is a growing hashtag on Twitter. #Digcitcommit, where people are talking about what they can do in the next however long to increase their awareness, or their students awareness of digital citizenship. So, I, I just have to talk about Common Sense Media again. I think that's my TechTool of the Week that is an amazing resource, and no kidding, every single time I go there to look for something I find something new that I didn't know was on there and I get really excited about it. There are lessons that they offer for educators K-12 are fantastic. They're short, they're to the point, and they cover a wide range of topics in digital citizenship and media literacy. One of the things that they found in their research is that we talked to kids about...if you ask them about this privacy and data collection all that stuff, they, they know about passwords, they know that they should keep their password safe. They know that photo sharing is an issue. they know that they should ask people before they share their photo online. But, though, they don't understand the complex things about that you know a school has your data, and social media platforms have your data and all of those things. There are Common Sense Media lessons around. So I think the more that we can talk about those, those topics that are outside the norm. Common Sense Media is covering them. And they're talking about how images are altered and retouched and how companies market to you, and I just, I love their resources for educators. And what I found last week, though I got really excited about, they have some ready made presentations. So if you, or someone in your school district wants to talk to families about this but you think you're not an expert, you don't quite know all the information. Wow, none of us are experts. None of us know all the information, but opening up that conversation is a great place to start, and Common Sense Media has some amazing resources and presentations and question guides that you can use to start that conversation with families. So, Common Sense Media is my TechTool of the Week.
Larry Burden 22:53 Tutorials and updates. The TechNollerGist is just absolutely out of control. Power Teacher Pro and Bright Arrow introductions, Ed Tech Standards Framework, Help Options and more. And I'm thinking about Instagram. I haven't quite figured it out yet but I'm looking at all these tutorials and I'm like, you know what, I wonder if we can do something with those on Instagram. So, you know feel free to give me any feedback.
Danelle Brostrom 23:20 I'll read the Privacy Policy and then I'll tell you.
Larry Burden 23:23 Well played,
Danelle Brostrom 23:24 boom,
Larry Burden 23:25 In closing, follow us on Facebook and Twitter @TCAPSLoop,
Danelle Brostrom 23:27 @brostromda
Larry Burden 23:29 Subscribe to the podcast on podbean, iTunes, Stitcher, Tune-In, downcast ,overcast, the Google Play Store or wherever else you get your ear candy. Please leave a review, we love the feedback. Thanks for listening and inspiring.
Larry Burden 23:47 I'm going to edit a decent amount of that out.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai

EdTech Loop Ep. 92 - Graphic Novels Are Good

"The comic strip is no longer the comic strip. But in reality and illustrated novel. It is new and raw in form just now, but material for limitless intelligent development. And eventually, and inevitably, it will be a legitimate medium for the best writers and artists. It is already the embryo of a new art form." - Will Eisner
 
Show Transcript:
Stephie Luyt 0:01 I'm not fuming.
Larry Burden 0:02 She's fuming.
Stephie Luyt 0:02 I'm the opposite of fuming.
Danelle Brostrom 0:04 Aww, that's more calming.
Stephie Luyt 0:11 We just might ramble.
Larry Burden 0:12 This is a safe space. If you haven't noticed through the years that this is a safe rambling space.
Stephie Luyt 0:18 That's meaty.
Larry Burden 0:24 It is Episode 92 of the EdTechLoop podcast. My name is Larry Burden and she has yet to reveal her secret identity. It's Danelle Brostrom. And also joining us, her spunky super sidekick Stephie Luyt. Up in the TCAPS tower we gaze over the troubled streets of TC pondering this week's moment of Zen.
Moment of Zen 0:44 Grown ups are a strange breed. Their brains weigh close to three pounds. And that's not three pounds of cheery delight.
Larry Burden 0:53 We've added sweet onions, garlic, tomatoes and potatoes but today's stew isn't completed until we add this week's meat of the show: Graphic Novels are Good, 'Nuff Said.
Danelle Brostrom 1:04 Stephie, I'm so excited that you're here today.
Larry Burden 1:06 She jumps in.
Danelle Brostrom 1:07 I did jump in
Larry Burden 1:08 That wasn't the quote.
Danelle Brostrom 1:10 You told me to jump in.
Larry Burden 1:11 That wasn't the quote. I had the quote.
Danelle Brostrom 1:13 Oh, Larry.
Danelle Brostrom 1:14 Edit!
Larry Burden 1:15 We're gonna keep this goin'
Stephie Luyt 1:16 Graphic novels are good. You like said it all.
Larry Burden 1:21 I wanted to share this from Will Eisner.
Stephie Luyt 1:23 Yes.
Danelle Brostrom 1:24 Ok
Larry Burden 1:25 The comic strip is no longer the comic strip. But in reality and illustrated novel. It is new and raw in form just now, but material for limitless intelligent development. And eventually, and inevitably, it will be a legitimate medium for the best writers and artists. It is already the embryo of a new art form.
Stephie Luyt 1:45 Excellent.
Larry Burden 1:46 And go.
Stephie Luyt 1:48 I'm glad we let you go past the rest.
Danelle Brostrom 1:51 Stephie, you're always my "go to" about good books for kids. So you've got quite a few graphic novels there. Talk to me about graphic novels. Why are they all of a sudden, the thing to read for kids?
Stephie Luyt 2:02 Okay, well, and can I just loop back a little bit to something Larry just said, because I think there's an interesting discussion to be had about comic strips versus graphic novels, you might find them in the same spot in the library. And they have so much in common because the story is told so visually and both but a comic strip is often told over many installations. Like if you think about a traditional comic strip it'd be in a newspaper.
Larry Burden 2:29 It's serialized.
Stephie Luyt 2:30 Yes. And a different way to think about a graphic novel is the whole story is usually told in a book or two. And sometimes there's a trilogy or whatnot of you know, it can be...
Larry Burden 2:39 It's like a movie versus a TV show.
Stephie Luyt 2:41 Excellent example. 'Nuff said. When we're thinking about, you know, graphic novels and comic strips and that art form, one of the reasons it's become so popular is because of the quality of what is being produced, and especially for kids, young readers, and middle grade and I was never aware of the extent of graphic novels that are available for adults too. I was surprised. I shouldn't be surprised. But that's not a medium that I was spending a lot of time reading. I was spending a lot of time and do spend a lot of time on children and Y.A.. But there's a whole world of adult graphic novels, not adult in theme but adult, geared toward adults. One really popular one that people may know and one that I am familiar with is now a Broadway play. It's called "Fun Home" by Alison Bechdel.
Larry Burden 3:30 Saw it.
Stephie Luyt 3:31 Oh, tell us about it.
Larry Burden 3:32 It was fabulous. It was, saw it in Toronto. It was really literate, really interesting. I'm not going to break it down. But yeah, brought my, my children to it. It was really mature subject matter.
Stephie Luyt 3:44 Yep.
Larry Burden 3:45 I did not actually know that it was based off of a graphic novel, so.
Stephie Luyt 3:48 Yeah, a graphic memoir that she described as a tragic comic,
Larry Burden 3:52 difficult topics handled actually, pretty delicately.
Stephie Luyt 3:55 And with a lot of humor. That's my, I mean, that's how the book is, I'm assuming.
Larry Burden 4:00 Yeah, absolutely.
Stephie Luyt 4:01 Content geared totally toward adults, all the way down to our littles. There are graphic novels that are just exploding and grabbing kids, because of the strength of the stories. The strength of the stories and the quality of the illustrations and the art. At the end of the day, anything in terms of books or narratives that we see in a TV show or anything like that, it all boils down to a story. And the stories that are being told are just really rich and really strong. And, you know, in terms of just looking at data from a hard data side, I mean, explosion in terms of $80 million in increased sales in graphic novels since 2017, according to one stat that I found. And it's where many of our most talented, I think authors and illustrators are working in that form right now. It's an exciting time, because there's so much there to hook kids. There's content and storylines in that format that would appeal to all readers. And readers of all ages and abilities.
Danelle Brostrom 5:05 That was gonna be my next question. So if I have a low reader, or a high reader, I should look to graphic novels for them. It's not just one type of child.
Stephie Luyt 5:13 Absolutely, Absolutely. And we've talked about this before with looking at books that would have, you know, themes for younger kids, but would have a high level of reading. Classics, and a lot of classics have been turned into graphic novels. And we were chatting yesterday about "A Wrinkle in Time," and how that is more accessible for some kids to start with the graphic novel before reading "A Wrinkle in Time." Or, I mean, "Anne of Green Gables," is a graphic novel. Lots and lots of books have been turned into that format, and are hooking readers, which is really what, that's the goal that we have. Like, get our kids reading, right book for the right reader.
Larry Burden 5:17 All right, I want to know what you got?
Stephie Luyt 5:55 So in front of us, there's kind of a stack of books as there tends to be. There were, just last week, a number of books, a number of graphic novels that were released, but they also were previewed this summer at a couple conferences. So I would say that one of the biggest that has just come out is "Guts," by Raina Telgemeier, who is well known for her other books, "Drama," "Smile," "Sisters," "Ghosts," and "Guts," is the story of the author's experience as a fourth grader and dealing with anxiety and stomach aches that came with her anxiety. And I've seen write ups about it as such an important work for kids who are struggling with those kinds of issues and being able to read about them in such an accessible, comfortable way. It's been written up a whole bunch recently, New York Times all sorts of places, and it's excellent. You've read it, I know you enjoyed it.
Danelle Brostrom 6:49 Yeah, my whole family, we thought it was amazing. And even just that idea of some things, some things that I'm experiencing, are kind of like this main character, but they're a little bit different. So being able to talk about how you relate to that character is a really important skill for kids.
Stephie Luyt 7:08 And I think that's something that if you've been exposed and reading in the genre, recently, the none of the books are shying away from issues that kids are dealing with. Like there, there's meaty, tough issues, and a lot of, a lot of books, not just graphic novels, but presented in a way that kids can identify with and you know, make meaning in their own life from the experiences of what they're seeing the characters go through. Plus, they're also fun and funny. I mean, the format is, lends itself to also a little bit of, you know, light humor too, and sometimes full on humor. I mean, they're just like "Fun Home," like it tackles tough issues, but that format helps make it comfortable.
Larry Burden 7:48 A lot more accessible. Sometimes, especially with some of the tougher issues, It's good to have a, an accessible image, as opposed to the image that might be developed in your own head. It kind of gives you a safety net.
Stephie Luyt 8:02 I think that's true.
Larry Burden 8:02 So it's not quite as scary.
Stephie Luyt 8:04 So highly recommend "Guts." Also "White Bird," by R.J. Palacio, whose name would be familiar if you're, have read the "Wonder," books. And this story is of Julian, so the character from "Wonder." It's Julian's grandmother's story. Julian is one of the characters who is one of the bullies in the book, in the main book. And this tells the backstory of his family. It's very powerful, because it's about the war and her experience in the war. The artwork is gorgeous. They were actually at ALA giving away prints of her art, and it was something that you would hang up, it's gorgeous. But telling that full spectrum of the "Wonder," story, which has been hugely popular, and anyone who's read "Wonder," would enjoy seeing this side of the story, in this perspective. And it's, there's heavy issues in it. But it's beautifully told.
Larry Burden 9:01 We've talked about graphic novels before on the podcast, and forever graphic novels have gotten a bad rap. Why?
Stephie Luyt 9:10 I mean, people say, you know, the, the argument is, it's not real reading, because it's in small chunks. And it's not written out in the same format. And it's, it looks different. And it has all those illustrations. And, it is real reading, and kids are digesting the story in the same way. And they are taking in the same content. And they are processing the artwork as part of the story, which is a whole 'nother set of skills. And it's telling the story in a, in another way. I believe anything that hooks kids and makes them want to read is real reading.
Larry Burden 9:46 It's a narrative. You're, you're, you're teaching students, or kids to love, narrative and love storytelling.
Stephie Luyt 9:53 And then this is just a creative way that's, that the story is being presented, you know, with art involved. And you know, I think before we had all of this amazing content in a graphic novel form, comic strips would have been what had gotten a bad rap. It's the same argument, though, like you're still, a story is being told, like you said in small episodes or increments, but the narrative and the arc of the story, and this, you know, the the plat, and the twists, and all those, all of those elements of a good story exist in that format. It's told in a different way,
Larry Burden 10:26 The form doesn't really matter, the reason why books were printed the way books were printed, time in memoriam, is cost. The more words you can fit on a page, the cheaper the book is. It's publishable. We now have the opportunity to make picture books cheaply. So that's the reason why we're making picture books. It's still words, it's still narrative, it's still story. Why should we be stuck with an old world form, when we don't have to? Well, the question that I have is, why are authors choosing this format? Because it's available to them now. It's potentially a better way to tell a story. It just wasn't available to them. I remember as a, as a student, when I was young, and I was a struggling reader. There were just too many words on a page, I couldn't manage that amount of content. You know, and they're finding now that large print books are actually really helping kids because they can manage the content. Again, my escape was the graphic novel or the comic book, because there was really just less word, less words on the page. And I was able to get, get over a lot of those hurdles, in my reading, to the point where then I could go and read much richer texts. And I had fallen in love with the narrative, which is the important part for our kids. They'll read. They have to have those progressions, to the point where they can. They're not going to start with Tolstoy and Dostoevsky. They're just not.
Stephie Luyt 12:01 Nor is anyone.
Larry Burden 12:02 And it's not a competition,
Stephie Luyt 12:04 Right?
Larry Burden 12:04 So whatever gets them hooked, is the important thing. And I think we've talked about that,
Stephie Luyt 12:09 Right? And the visual are very engaging, and pull kids into the narrative, before they even get into the story. So I think it's it's a win, win. Was it the art? Or was it the story that grabbed you as a reader when you were young?
Larry Burden 12:24 Both.
Stephie Luyt 12:24 Both.
Larry Burden 12:25 Both. But I would say, you know, just like looking at an album cover, as you're going to the record store back in the day. You'd be like, oh, that's a cool album cover. I think I'm going to get it. And then you know, you listen to it, you might like it, you might not. The art was, was the entry point. The story is what kept you coming back?
Stephie Luyt 12:42 Absolutely.
Danelle Brostrom 12:43 Well, the goal should be to get kids to fall in love with reading. And part of getting kids to fall in love with reading is that they need to be able to see themselves in the story. And if you have a child who had issues, like we talked about "Guts," like with anxiety, typically you would have to look for a middle school or high school book. And that's not always going to have content in it that's appropriate for an elementary school kids. So I love how these graphic novels do tackle tough issues, and kids can actually see themselves in them, but it's done in a safe accessible way for kids.
Stephie Luyt 13:17 Absolutely. And issues that are really mainstream that kids are, lots of kids are dealing with, anxiety and other issues like that, but kids are also dealing with friend concerns. And there's lots of books that are just focused on real experiences of what kids are having. And the range of so many experiences, so many different situations. And I feel like books are really expanding into all of those. You know, starting to pull stories from lots and lots of different perspectives. I mean, we've talked a lot about you know, windows and mirrors, and, and books of all forms, graphic included are getting more and more experiences, more and more perspectives, more, just more looks at all the different ways people are experiencing the world. And I think that is a win for all readers, and especially our kiddos.
Larry Burden 14:04 Sure, what else we have?
Stephie Luyt 14:06 There's a trilogy that's been very popular, and the most recent one is called, "Sonny Rolls the Dice," getting adjusted to middle school. Kind of those same issues, friend issues. This one makes me giggle because it's about Dungeons and Dragons. So it's back in like the heyday of Dungeons and Dragons, which apparently is having a huge comeback.
Danelle Brostrom 14:24 What!
Danelle Brostrom 14:26 And then, "The Babysitters Club," books that are really popular that Raina Telgemaier has, she has done a number of graphic novels that are the "Babysitters Club." Based on the novels that were by Ann Martin. But this is for younger readers, because it's the "Babysitters Little Sister," is the title that we're looking at. So it's for younger kids than Upper El, even. So that is what, as you look through graphic novels, you really do see that there are books geared toward all ages. And you know, the "Lunch Lady," series and "Zita, the Space Girl," and the "Bone," books. Those are young Elementary, and then moving all the way through. So much for Upper El and Middle, and then High School. And as we talked about, lots and lots of titles for adults as well. I mean, there's a really powerful trilogy of books called, "March." And it's based on the experience of John Lewis. And, I think it was up for a National Book Award. Maybe the first one in the series. But that's telling, from his perspective of being involved in the civil rights movement, and telling all that important history through this powerful graphic novel format. And again, it just highlights that the graphic novel format is touching on all sorts of story. That it's touching on fiction, and nonfiction and memoir. And it's so hard to hear that it's not real reading because of all of what it encompasses in that, in that format. So what we have to do, I think, is just spend, lock ourselves in for the rest of the day and just read graphic novels. Is that okay?
Larry Burden 15:52 Oh, I'm in.
Danelle Brostrom 15:52 Okay.
Larry Burden 15:52 I'm 100% in, yeah,
Stephie Luyt 15:55 And graphic novels are satisfying, because you can get through them a little more quickly. So you'll feel accomplished on your reading list.
Larry Burden 16:01 There was some passion, in what you're saying.
Stephie Luyt 16:04 They're so great. I just love that the options are out there for kids. And they're so, and not just graphic novels, but there's so much out there, especially right now for, for young readers. The quality of what's coming out. And it's awesome.
Larry Burden 16:18 And I just thought about this because I'm reading a book, and as I'm going through, and like, "is this is a young adult book?" Like that was a bad thing. You know, I just in my head, How can we get that out of my head? Because I don't think I'm alone. In that, I'm an adult, I shouldn't be reading, whatever. I, really, and there's so much good content in the young adult section.
Stephie Luyt 16:40 There's so much good content everywhere.
Larry Burden 16:42 Well, Yeah.
Stephie Luyt 16:43 My book group, which is almost all English teachers at one of the high schools, we just read a picture book for our book club. And it's the story of Margaret Wise Brown. So the, you know, "Goodnight Moon," and it's, it's this amazing picture book about her, and that was our book club book. So I don't know what to tell you accept that embrace it. If you love the book, read it and take the story and, who cares if it's a YA, who cares if it's a children's book? That's my not super helpful comment.
Danelle Brostrom 17:15 Didn't "Harry Potter," kind of break that thought for a lot of people?
Larry Burden 17:19 I think so
Danelle Brostrom 17:20 I mean, aren't there are a lot of adults who gravitated to Harry Potter for the first time and went like, Whoa, there's actually good things in YA, I shouldn't dismiss that entire...
Stephie Luyt 17:29 Middle grade. Yeah,
Larry Burden 17:30 It's so, it's so simple in the sense that those books were thick.
Stephie Luyt 17:34 Right?
Larry Burden 17:35 So they must be literature,
Stephie Luyt 17:36 right?
Danelle Brostrom 17:37 It's true.
Larry Burden 17:38 If a graphic novel was a little thicker, suddenly, that's literature.
Stephie Luyt 17:43 So like, "Wonderstruck," or "Hugo Cabret."
Larry Burden 17:46 Yeah, I was thinking, yes.
Stephie Luyt 17:47 Those are almost all illustrations. And but, yes, a super thick book that would allay your, your feelings of...
Larry Burden 17:54 Make it, make it hard cover and
Stephie Luyt 17:56 if it's heavy, but it doesn't have to be boring and old to make it real literature.
Danelle Brostrom 18:01 Mic drop.
Larry Burden 18:02 Techtool of the Week
Danelle Brostrom 18:06 Techtool of the Week, we...
Larry Burden 18:08 That was so cute...
Stephie Luyt 18:09 We sort of have one. I think our TechTool of the Week was to...
Techtool of the Week 18:13 Just follow Colby Sharp. I can't always take a ton of Stephie's time to get good book recommendations. So...
Stephie Luyt 18:20 Yes you can.
Danelle Brostrom 18:20 be, being able to follow someone like Colby Sharp, who is in the classroom with kids. And reads how many books?
Danelle Brostrom 18:27 A thousand books a year. Following someone like him. Because he's always sharing the stuff that's coming out, that's new, and that's really, really good
Stephie Luyt 18:36 Yeah, the book you talked about it Wired just came out. It's called, "Maybe He Just Likes You." And it was the book, I think if I'm remembering how he phrased this, if you're going to read one book this year, that should be it, so.
Larry Burden 18:47 Great follow on Twitter, for sure. Um, I just want to throw it out tutorials and updates. I have to be honest, we have so many pods out there right now. So many podcasts and stuff that's been thrown up on YouTube. I'm not going to hit them all. So I'm just going to say, go to Danelle's YouTube page, go to the TechNollerGist's YouTube page, which just there's so much content there. The TCAPSLoop YouTube Channel has something on it. We did actually put the Evan O'branevic podcast on there, or at least a snippet of it. So, it's alive. "It's Alive! Alive! Closing, follow us on Facebook and Twitter @TCAPSLoop
Danelle Brostrom 19:26 @brostromda
Stephie Luyt 19:27 @StephieLuyt
Larry Burden 19:28 Subscribe to the podcast on podbean, iTunes, Stitcher, Tune-in, downcast, overcast, the Google Play Store or wherever else you get your ear candy. Please leave review. We love the feedback. Thanks for listening and inspiring.
Stephie Luyt 19:43 Okay, well, Are we still being recorded?

TechNollerGist Ep. 12: Practical EdTech

Liz Kolb, the originator of the Triple E Framework, visited us over the summer delivering this year's WiredTC keynote. The TechNollerGist gives his own practical take on the "Framework" and how best to apply it to your technology use in the classroom. 
 
Show Transcript:
Larry Burden 0:00 What is this app with the little things poking out of it?
Larry Burden 0:05 Like, uh-oh, uh-oh something has gone amiss.
Larry Burden 0:15 All right, here we go. It's Episode 12 of the TechNollerGist podcast. The number is still correct. I know you debate. I'm Larry Burden, and he's been actively developing a framework to avoid frameworks. It's the TechNollerGist, David Noller.
David Noller 0:28 That's not inaccurate right there.
Larry Burden 0:30 You are the agent of chaos.
David Noller 0:33 I am an agent of chaos. That's great.
Larry Burden 0:34 Today's topic, should he, should he choose to accept it? practical Ed Tech, with the Triple E Framework?
David Noller 0:40 Yeah.
Larry Burden 0:41 So Liz Kolb, the originator of the Triple E Framework visited us over the summer. Did a little WiredTC keynote, which I thought was fabulous. We kind of discussed it a little bit in an earlier EdTech Loop podcast regarding the fact that she just got right into it, and went into the research it was your professional, I'm a professional, let's talk about professional stuff.
David Noller 1:04 Right, right.
Larry Burden 1:05 Um, but for those of us that did not attend the keynote, what is the Triple E Framework?
David Noller 1:12 So, I like to slow roll it in terms of just providing, like just the, the bare bones of the framework, right? Because I think in many ways, the framework reflects what has been good teaching all along. But highlights in a way that's, that's certainly useful for our teachers to know, and is great as a way to reflect on our practice. So the three big things of the framework are that we use, whatever resources we're using, whether it's a technology piece, a website, a tool, whatever it happens to be to engage, enhance, and extend learning. Those terms are pretty self explanatory. In terms of extending, we want to build a bridge to real world experience with the kids with the things we're doing with them. And if we can use a technology tool to do that, then we've met our duty to extend. We want to enhance the kids experience by helping them build to a more sophisticated understanding. And we do that through scaffolding. And that's where I keep coming back and saying, and that's always been good teaching. We've always tried to scaffold from simple to complex. But with some of the available tools we have, we can go higher than we could without those tools. When we're talking about paper and pencil, you can only go so far. If you can run a simulation, online, using these tools, we're taking this scaffold and we're building and higher.
Larry Burden 2:43 I hadn't thought about this before. But not only are you creating, and I think we lose this sometimes when we talk about using technology, you're creating scaffolding that goes higher, you're also creating scaffolding underneath. Because there's foundational skills that you need to have developed in yourself and in the students to get to the stuff up high.
David Noller 3:09 Sure. Sometimes we throw kids into the practice of the high stuff. And they learn those foundational things as they go. So the next time they encounter that tool, it's easier for them to use. There's no way around, you're going to have to use, you know, this library media research tool, the first time once. Once you've used it the first time once, then it's no longer the first time and you build those foundation, as you go through that process. When we do our senior research project in the spring. By the time they're seniors, they've used that library tool so many times that it's, I have to spend less time building the basement, and we can spend more time being intentional about our information gathering.
Larry Burden 3:50 Do you find that there are students, or how much time do you spend making sure the foundation is set before you go on into the lesson?
David Noller 4:00 I'm able to do it in a way that, I walk with them for the first few steps. I don't, I don't demo and then have them get in. We all get in together. We've already at that point thought about something that we're interested in finding more about. So we've already kind of set something that we're going to look for. So when we get into the tool, all we got to do now is figure out how to look for it. So while I'm putting in my search term they're putting in there's. I'm demonstrating it through the projector that's at the front of my room, but they're doing it for themselves. So when I asked them within this research tool to, to view the wheel of topics, and to be able to show how they can drill down to sub-topics and how they can use that to then get to specific resources. They're doing it with me. And not only are they learning the process, as they do it with me, they're being exposed to resources that they may very well use when it comes time to actually dig into the sources. They have the opportunity to both use the tool and discover meaningful content through the building of the foundation.
Larry Burden 5:02 According to the Triple E Framework, this would be a usable tech tool.
David Noller 5:06 Yeah.
Larry Burden 5:07 When do you use it? When, when are you being mindful of, does this fit into, does this tool that I'm using fit into the Triple E Framework.
David Noller 5:16 So, in terms of something new, that I'm, I'm trying for the first time, I'm going to be thinking about whether or not, is this something that engages students in a way that I can control time on task to make sure that they're engaged in the process the whole time. I've talked before about how one of the drawbacks of technology that happens is when a teacher says okay, I need you to do this. And then there's like half an hour. Too much time to get distracted, right? I'm gonna give you 30 minutes to do X, well, they're going to do X maybe, but they're also going to do Y, Z, Alpha, Beta, you know, etc. So I bear those kinds of lessons in mind about being intentional with time on task. And that's part of engagement.
Larry Burden 5:58 That would be one of the E's.
David Noller 6:00 About making sure that what I'm doing is part of a scaffolded process. And then the third thing, and this is the thing I've been thinking about most, is the extension part, I'm teaching creative writing. The first thing we did in the first week, well, the first thing, one of the things we did in our first week was establish a online portfolio that's they're going to be able to share with an authentic audience. Whether it's their parents or the whole world, or
Larry Burden 6:23 You were talking about the last year.
David Noller 6:24 I'm still working about that, right. But that's extending learning. Where the only way they're going to have that authentic audience is by using the technology tool that's available through this website creator. We're using Google Sites. And that's what we mean when we're talking about examining the, the technology tools that we use according to this framework. If the assignment extends, regardless of the technology tool, that's not what the frameworks really for. The framework is for looking, is this technology tool, useful as something that will extend the students learning? Then with extension, you know, we're talking about bridging to real world, we're talking about building critical skills that are real world skills. And when you have to put your work out there in front of an authentic audience who has the ability to comment and you have to manage that sort of feedback, personally, those are those soft skills about taking criticism and taking comment and being willing to share your work with others, because I mean, when we're in the world of work, or when the world of academia, someone's always looking over our shoulder. And so this is giving them a sort of...
Larry Burden 7:31 Sharing doesn't mean scaring.
David Noller 7:33 No, it doesn't always mean caring, either. But it does, it does mean that you have to have a kind of fortitude to, to manage whatever response you get.
Larry Burden 7:45 That's how you use it. When a teacher is considering it, when should they be looking at, in their lesson planning?
David Noller 7:54 Yeah,
Larry Burden 7:54 You know, what, at what point in time should they be like, is this, or is this not something that I should be incorporating into?
David Noller 8:01 I'd say it's step one. If you have a thought, hey, I'd like to use this website, this online tool, this simulation, whatever it happens to be, before you get into all the planning, and all the creation of assets that you're going to need to teach it, go through the framework? Does it, is it going to engage my students in a way that is going to keep their attention and time on task consistently? If "Yes," keep going? Is it going to enhance the students learning? Are they going to learn something more by, by doing it? One of the things that, that we've seen as a kind of negative example of that, are these academic games, these learning games, where after the kid does five or ten repetitions of learning, then they get to play a game as a reward. Sounds great. Except what we find is that those learners who are not the "Go-Get-Em," type will often just click through the answers, so they can play the game. So the game becomes an actual distraction from learning instead of being a motivation to learn. Because most of those, you don't have to get it right to get to the game, you just have to answer it.
Larry Burden 9:12 Only, even if you do, even if you do have to get it right, you basically just created a multiple choice, you know, press and guess type of situation,
David Noller 9:21 Right.
Larry Burden 9:22 That's not really extending. Though the game is exciting, and interesting. The actual learning hasn't changed at all.
David Noller 9:30 And if it's going to be a game, the the learning should come from the content of the game. Rather than, I answered five questions, now I get to play Space Invaders.
Larry Burden 9:38 Yeah, we're big fans of gamifying here.
David Noller 9:40 Oh, yeah,
Larry Burden 9:41 We are big fans, huge fans.
David Noller 9:43 I'm not a fan of traditional learning rewarded with games.
Larry Burden 9:47 They don't have context.
David Noller 9:48 I am a big fan of learning through games. And then the, the extension part. Is it giving you something to do that is taking the students beyond what they do in a traditional day? Is it taking them outside of the building? Is it taking them to real world, even soft skills of managing impulsivity or working with a team? Those kinds of things. So for me, it's from the beginning. If I'm gonna engage in this technology tool, It has to be intentional. And how do you make it intentional, you can follow this framework.
Larry Burden 10:18 You're saying that, maybe not flipping through Twitter and going, ooh, Flippity! Though we like Flippity. Flippity is really cool. I don't really know it. I'm just going to throw it in there and...
David Noller 10:29 Yeah,
Larry Burden 10:30 see how it works?
David Noller 10:31 Yeah, that's, that's been a challenge for us lately, is that there are so many great shiny baubles out there to play with on the internet, and sometimes we want to say, I gotta put this in front of my kids, they'll love it. But, you know, we've got the committee to review those things so we can make sure that we're protecting the kids privacy and their data and all that thing. So, part of being intentional about the, the Triple E Framework, we have to have as a corollary, also being intentional about data and privacy.
Larry Burden 10:57 Absolutely. Well, and also you might...
David Noller 11:00 Shout out Danelle.
Larry Burden 11:01 Thank you for going through all those, all that fine print in terms of agreements, it's, it's wow. Is there anything else on the Triple E?
David Noller 11:08 We can dig into all kinds of things. We can give examples. I will give you this as an example. And this will be my like, application outside of what I usually do. Kate Hansen teaches Spanish. And If you are I grew up in the decades before, a long time ago. I learned Spanish from worksheets and from repeat after me, and that's how we did it way back then, memorizing vocabulary. Ms. Hansen has been able to do engagement, enhancement, and extension, through things as simple as creating a running journal that the kids keep, where every time they write, they have to write 10% more than they did last time. So, it's a Google Doc, they do a word count to see what they did last time, and then with the new vocabulary and the new ways of speaking that they've been learning through comprehensive input method, they try to write a little more. And so, because they have that resource always available to them, they're always able to see what they've done. There's never a question of what did I do last time. In terms of like reflective learning, they're able to reflect every time they, they produce, they can reflect on what they did last time. She also has a as an extension piece. We have an exchange with a school in Leon, where the kids are pen pals, and even video pals with those students. And they send videos back and forth, they send notes back and forth, they talk about themselves. That's the kind of thing that it's not necessarily high tech. It's just a pen pal. But we're doing it through the internet, we're using the video capabilities across the internet. But it connects the students in a real meaningful, authentic way with a whole new audience. Native speakers of the language they're learning, and connects them in a way that, that builds those kind of soft skills of relationships and things too. So
Larry Burden 12:59 Enhancement, engagement,
David Noller 13:01 Extension
Larry Burden 13:02 Extension, bam, bam, bam,
David Noller 13:03 She has accidentally become an expert in the Triple E Framework. But that's kind of what I mean about good teaching. She's taken the tools that were available, and before we even started talking about Triple E, would be somebody that we could hold up as an example of someone who fully engages in the principles of the Triple E framework, because she's a good teacher.
Larry Burden 13:27 A good teacher will trip and fall into the Triple E Framework.
David Noller 13:31 Yeah, I think so. With a little help from your friends, Maybe a shove. A gentle push.
Larry Burden 13:38 If nothing else, Danelle to read those terms and policies.
David Noller 13:39 That's right.
Larry Burden 13:41 Before you use the tool.
David Noller 13:42 The Triple E Framework, it's like if you're trying to decide what to use, If you've got a pancake use a spatula.
Larry Burden 13:51 Thank you Uncle Buck.
David Noller 13:51 You know, right. Don't use the snow shovel unless you're making a four foot wide pancake. If the tools right for the job, it's right for the job, Look at the Triple E Framework. Make sure it's doing the things we need it to do. But don't jump into using a technology tool just because it's technology. It has to fit that framework in order to make meaning with the student learning.
Larry Burden 14:13 Love it. Absolutely love it. I don't know, it's early in the year. I don't know if you've got it yet. It's our favorite segment, "This Pods Getting Gamey."
Larry Burden 14:19 Are you gamifying anything this year?
David Noller 14:24 I did a thing.
Larry Burden 14:27 You've done a lot of things, Most of them aren't appropriate for the podcast.
David Noller 14:31 Wow! All right.
Larry Burden 14:33 Tread lightly sir, tread lightly.
David Noller 14:35 So, Sociology, you know, I did the monopoly thing I've done in the past. It's been successful to a degree here and there. It's been great. It's been okay. I wanted to do something simpler. And so I created a simple simulation where based on student choice, they had a list of half a dozen characteristics they could acquire. If they acquired two from that list they couldn't get any the other ones. I could see this being used, by the way, like a science class where you're designing a new species. What kind of, out of this six, what do you get? You get two. Okay, well, now you can't pick those. Once they pick those two characteristics for their society, whether it was advanced horse riding, or development of agriculture, or development of a market, that opened up another group of things that they could choose from in the next round. And they had to talk about, within the context of Structural Functionalism, this theory we're dealing with, what would help to create stability, and solidarity in their, in their society. Which roles had to be filled. In which direction were they going to go? One group went full warfare. They went, we want to develop weapons, we want to learn offensive strategy. They didn't take any food development. They didn't take any government. They didn't take any trading along the way. They could have specialized in inter-village trade, they didn't. All they did was war. The time it took to write this out was about 15 minutes, maybe. As I figured out the branches of these different skills and what they could open up, right. 15, 10, 15 minutes, super quick. And then the time came, and I turned to the group, the military group, I said, Who do you want to attack? Well, who's got the most money? They do. And how do I know that? Because I decided. They had a market, they had built a barn and a silo for storage. They developed their agriculture, they had a fence, okay, they are. We attack them. Well, they didn't know, the attacking group didn't know, that thee, that this rich group also invested in defensive warfare. And so there were losses on each side, but they were not conquered. And then immediately, one of my students says, "How about the rest of us form an alliance against them." And all of those principles that we'd been talking about in Structural Functionalism, about the roles that we take on in society, in order to create stability and protection. In order to have solidarity, so we have community within. All that stuff played out in the classroom, to the point where one group was literally shunned. And they were personally offended. Not just in the context of the game, but they're mad at their classmates for leaving them out, right? But, that was kind of the goal of the whole thing. So...
Larry Burden 17:28 If you're not gonna play nice,
David Noller 17:29 If you're not gonna play nice, you know, they're gonna kick sand or whatever, I don't know, what is it, they take their ball and go home. So, it was super simple, took me about 10 minutes to plan, maybe 15 max, and super effective. And it was paper and pencil, had nothing to do with technology, except for the fact that I typed out the rules on a Google Doc. But it was, it was a great way to engage kids in decision making, that demonstrated this theoretical framework, where at the end, they could all kind of give a A-Ha, I get it now.
Larry Burden 18:03 More frameworks from you. This is getting weird.
Larry Burden 18:06 But it's chaos, because you know, I had the rules, but I had to storytell the whole thing as we went. So...
Larry Burden 18:11 Okay, well let it pass.
David Noller 18:12 There's till some chaos.
Larry Burden 18:14 Tutorials and updates. I just wanted to point out that we had a, Meet the Tech Director pod, on Tuesday. Dropped yesterday I do believe. It's a very good pod. He had things to say.
David Noller 18:23 I will listen to those things.
Larry Burden 18:25 They were good. They were good things. We actually are going to, actually be putting a piece of that, a snippet of that on YouTube. The TCAPSLoop YouTube channel is active.
David Noller 18:34 All right.
Larry Burden 18:34 Now speaking of active YouTube channels,
David Noller 18:36 Yes,
Larry Burden 18:37 The TechNollerGist has always got something going on, on YouTube. Have you dropped anything new?
David Noller 18:41 There have been a couple recently. We're working on a project of, sort of like, TCAPS Tech 101, getting started kind of skills and things. So I've just put up a couple about, like real mundane stuff, like how to change your printer, how to access the TCAPS App Store for programs that are already installed on your device that you might need. Danielle just is working on one I think I linked it on on my page, because apparently I still things, but, on sort of the philosophy of technology integration in TCAPS. And then I also posted one about, where to find help in TCAPS when you have technology questions. There's our help desk extension 3-3325, there is on Google Drive, there's our team drive that has the tech toolbox. And then of course there's your educational technology coaches, Daniel Brostrom, and myself the TechNollerGist.
Larry Burden 19:38 All right. In closing Follow us on Facebook and Twitter @tcapsloop
David Noller 19:42 @TechNollerGist. What happened?
Larry Burden 19:45 I don't know that you didn't
David Noller 19:46 I wasn't listening to what you said. I assumed I was supposed to say something.
Larry Burden 19:49 You did exactly what you're supposed to do but you looked really confused doing it.
David Noller 19:52 I went somewhere in my head. And I don't know quite where I went.
Larry Burden 19:56 I don't know if I want to know where you went.
David Noller 19:58 I was thinking of a joke. How many surrealists does it take to change a light bulb?
Larry Burden 20:04 How many?
David Noller 20:05 banana.
Larry Burden 20:07 I was gonna say rhinoceros.
David Noller 20:09 Close.
Larry Burden 20:10 Subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, Stitcher, the Google Play Store and anywhere else you get your ear candy. Remember, you're never too old to play.
David Noller 20:18 Play a game today, it's good for you.